131–140 of 280 posts
This looks so awesome! It's got the best parts of a lot of languages. This is what sticks out to me: - Really simple lisp like scheme, but reminds me of lua (and not bloated like CL) - Has resumable fibers, no callcc like scheme - Not missing the lack of lists tbh - A module system that doesn't feel awkward like CL - A built-in package manager (unlike CL) - Good lua and C support - Threads have a shared-nothing appro…
Okay, so when Clojure came along, it came with a strong underlying philosophy of what the language was supposed to be/do. Among them were design decisions such as, e.g.,: - VMs, not OSes, are the platforms of the future, so target the JVM - Object Orientation is overrated, but polymorphism is a good thing - Multi-core is here to stay, so use immutable data structures to greatly facilitate writing correct concurrent p…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That assumes it is a tradeoff. Maybe you can have both. I see nothing obviously preventing having power, expressiveness, and reach, and ease of use
I agree that it doesn't have to be a trade-off, but that mindset might explain why there is less focus on creating one-click installers. An example would be Clojure's newish approach to managing projects via the CLI and deps.edn. It's very powerful, and expressive, but definitely not a one-click approach.
But as I recall the original Rich Hickey talks on "Why Clojure?" he was explicit that dependency/project management were very hard problems that Clojure didn't really attempt to solve.
I'm not aware of any Clojure tools that are best-of-breed for project management. Java has a better model for locking everything down (or maybe how the Linux Distros manage their repositories) and Python has a better model for just keeping up with the current state of things. I'm not aware of any half-and-half model that gives satisfying results.
Clojure is inferior to Java in that aspect because the number of things to keep track of roughly doubles (for every concept there seems to be a Clojure version and a Java version) and library management is bizarre and warty - see also the horrible import/require/use/some other one I can't even remember mess. And then there is unpicking the syntax differences between using things in the (ns) macro vs calling direct. I dunno; maybe something changed but that part of the experience is a mess. Unusually poorly done in Clojure too, everything else was so lovely.
I never got on top of it and I tried for months; as evidenced I can't even remember how to load a library after putting it down for a little while. Even assuming the classpath is correctly set. What would have to happen for a C programmer to forget #include "name.h" ?
Okay, so when Clojure came along, it came with a strong underlying philosophy of what the language was supposed to be/do. Among them were design decisions such as, e.g.,: - VMs, not OSes, are the platforms of the future, so target the JVM - Object Orientation is overrated, but polymorphism is a good thing - Multi-core is here to stay, so use immutable data structures to greatly facilitate writing correct concurrent p…
As far as language features, I miss a lot from clojure: immutable/persistent data structures, protocols, not to mention concurrency primitives. But Janet's approach to performance and design is "do less". With the C api you can easily add bindings to some C library that provides a desired feature. But even without that stuff, Janet is for me a python-killer, if not a clojure killer.
Edit: at any rate, I think it's not meant to be a competitor to Clojure, its similar syntax just often invites the comparison. It's much more fair to compare it to Lua.
It was clear and easy how to build it for my Windows 10 box, and it is relatively small.
I have always like the small Lisps like PicoLisp, but PicoLisp is not Windows friendly; it's very POSIX-dependent. I haven't had great experiences with Cygwin. PicoLisp works on WSL/WSL2 though.
Okay, so when Clojure came along, it came with a strong underlying philosophy of what the language was supposed to be/do. Among them were design decisions such as, e.g.,: - VMs, not OSes, are the platforms of the future, so target the JVM - Object Orientation is overrated, but polymorphism is a good thing - Multi-core is here to stay, so use immutable data structures to greatly facilitate writing correct concurrent p…
On the VM front, I love the JVM, but a vast majority of languages gaining popularity are generating static binaries. GraalVM may help close the gap here. OO is overrated but most apps have some state and I found the entity-component systems solid but not still unwieldy. Clojure has really great concurrency primitives; all the semantics I could want built right in. Except my concurrency often occurs in the persistence…
If you got the repl-driven development down, you wouldn't test your CLI by launching it, you would just evaluate the same functions as the CLI uses. Only time when you'd want to launch the CLI would be before releasing a build or for E2E tests. Once you got the code down for your repl and the startup time becomes a hassle, you compile down your Clojure program to a binary with GraalVM and now it starts up fast.
Otherwise, give babashka a try. Basically single-binary Clojure environment. https://github.com/borkdude/babashka
Okay, so when Clojure came along, it came with a strong underlying philosophy of what the language was supposed to be/do. Among them were design decisions such as, e.g.,: - VMs, not OSes, are the platforms of the future, so target the JVM - Object Orientation is overrated, but polymorphism is a good thing - Multi-core is here to stay, so use immutable data structures to greatly facilitate writing correct concurrent p…
On the VM front, I love the JVM, but a vast majority of languages gaining popularity are generating static binaries. GraalVM may help close the gap here. OO is overrated but most apps have some state and I found the entity-component systems solid but not still unwieldy. Clojure has really great concurrency primitives; all the semantics I could want built right in. Except my concurrency often occurs in the persistence…
I like it, and I am considering using it as a scripting language. It was clear and easy how to build it for my Windows 10 box, and it is relatively small. I have always like the small Lisps like PicoLisp, but PicoLisp is not Windows friendly; it's very POSIX-dependent. I haven't had great experiences with Cygwin. PicoLisp works on WSL/WSL2 though.