Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

secondbreakfast.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 445 posts

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#271

Post by stephen_g »

ci5er wrote: post #246
solarkraft wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do read about these things, but I can also spend my time with lots of other stimulating/important stuff. Priorities, maybe?

Fair enough - I was just curious if the average modern software developer read books by Andy Grove ("Paranoid"), or Crossing the Chasm, or the biography of Steve Jobs, or kept track of what's up with the top 250 global tech companies on planet Earth every week for 20 years. Now, that's a little unfair because I read really fast. But - I guess I was just curious about how a tech person couldn't know about SAP. NOT as…

I think it’s a bit of a personality type thing. I’m 30, know a fair bit about SAP and ERP systems in general despite never having really used any (small electronics company I work for uses a really crap MRP from a tiny company in New Zealand, which I suspect was probably selected because the operations manager was mates with somebody who implemented it it and/or because it was cheap and our accountant is a penny-pincher).

But for me, I just find my self researching all sorts of things that aren’t even related to my job. From aviation to renewable energy to database systems to carrier network hardware to finance and economics to chemical process engineering, etc. I just find myself almost infinitely curious, and meet others like that occasionally but it doesn’t seem to be how most people are wired. I don’t think it needs to be the norm to be for most jobs, but I find it’s a huge advantage for the kind of higher level product architect/systems engineering roles I’m doing more of.

In some ways it’s detrimental - I find it really difficult to keep motivated to do the deeper-level nitty-gritty engineering tasks because I’m always more interested in everything going on at a higher level in our products, so when involved in hiring I don’t try and select for people like me. I think tech companies need some but also people who are happy to focus on deeper-level work.

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#272

Post by ci5er »

stephen_g wrote: post #271
ci5er wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough - I was just curious if the average modern software developer read books by Andy Grove ("Paranoid"), or Crossing the Chasm, or the biography of Steve Jobs, or kept track of what's up with the top 250 global tech companies on planet Earth every week for 20 years. Now, that's a little unfair because I read really fast. But - I guess I was just curious about how a tech person couldn't know about SAP. NOT as…

I think it’s a bit of a personality type thing. I’m 30, know a fair bit about SAP and ERP systems in general despite never having really used any (small electronics company I work for uses a really crap MRP from a tiny company in New Zealand, which I suspect was probably selected because the operations manager was mates with somebody who implemented it it and/or because it was cheap and our accountant is a penny-pinc…

Thank you for that.

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#273

Post by ci5er »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #267
ci5er wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a - maybe silly - question: Do you think that software engineers read about the business of technology? I mean, some of these behemoths (or used-to-be behemoths) of technology, like Oracle and Intel and Microsoft (Ok - everyone knows them) and Dell and Apple (mostly the 2nd one) and places like SAP (which is arguably the biggest database and logistics and supply chain (sans the EDI middle-ware vendors on the…

>I grew up libraries of books and they've got google, but want to be lectured? Your son and his friends know you. Your experience is lived, and real, as real as you sitting next to them. Reading books is abstract, the language can be obscure, archaic, verbose, flowery, dense, etc. Your son and friends know how to read your emotions and communicate effectively with you. An hour of your stories could likely replace doz…

Thank you for that. (I'm not being glib.)

EDIT: I think your learning style and mine are much different. I remember when I had to do a biological proposal to DARPA (I guess I didn't have to), I went to the University of Texas bookstore and got every book they had on molecular biology - and read them over two days at a Starbucks on the deck (beautiful day, but hot), and then wrote the proposal and had the interview. (I'm an EE,CS and Physics guy who knows jack-shit about molecular biology). I never figured I ever had time to talk to anybody as long as I had 30 vertical centimeters of books on the floor that had to be processed by dawn. Maybe it's a generational thing. Maybe I'm just broken.

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#274

Post by satvikpendem »

sq_ wrote: post #239
NikolaNovak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it helps understand the ecosystem and its seeking oddness, this is the crucial part of article: "Implementing ERP isn’t just a purchasing decision: it’s committing to redoing how you handle operations. Installing the software is the easy part; adjusting the whole company’s workflow is the most of the work." Don't think of erp and implementing it as a software development challenge. Sure, Developers can fscrew…

This reminds me of something I read while helping a business major friend with a case study a while back. One of the readings she had as background mentioned that companies like SAP that sell ERP are almost selling the process/workflow more than the actual software. Part of me wonders if these things are more of a "no one ever got fired for buying IBM" thing than anything else. Are people buying the workflow because…

Sounds like Agile to me.

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#275

Post by [deleted] »

fovc wrote: post #88
_bxg1 wrote: post #7

I remember reading this article about SAP a few months ago, and it just blew my mind: https://retool.com/blog/erp-for-engineers/ Here was an entire market segment I'd never heard of, and just the market leader is worth $163B . And on top of that, the technology is so totally alien to anything I'd ever heard of before. It's like an alternate-history kind of thing. Like if we discovered a continent somewhere in the Pac…

Coming from the opposite direction (mgmt consulting for big corps -> startup), I was very familiar with the ERP concept, but am still super confused by the ERP market. Every so often I look for an ERP for our company, but am always disappointed by the options. It seems there's an uncanny valley between Quickbooks and SAP, but maybe the issue is just one of discoverability. We've slowly stitched together an assortment…

[deleted]

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#276

Post by bluedino »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #18
NikolaNovak wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fascinating to me, because virtually all my friends have heard of SAP outside of IT - as users or recipients. My engineer friend uses it for supply chain management, a beer store hq clerk helped implement it, construction accountant has used it, etc. At the same time, I guess you have to be at a company of a certain size for it to be relevant to your life... But that perhaps proves the point - HN is very star…

And if it helps understand the ecosystem and its seeking oddness, this is the crucial part of article: "Implementing ERP isn’t just a purchasing decision: it’s committing to redoing how you handle operations. Installing the software is the easy part; adjusting the whole company’s workflow is the most of the work." Don't think of erp and implementing it as a software development challenge. Sure, Developers can fscrew…

A good way for your organization to completely botch an ERP implementation is to fight the system every step of the way because your business is 'special'. Many people end up abusing customizations to the point of trying to emulate their old system in the new one, and nobody wins.

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#278

Post by arethuza »

badpun wrote: post #189
deng wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Germany and of course everyone here has at least heard of SAP and knows it's huge, but I guess not many people know just how huge. SAP consultancy is a big market here with lots and lots of job openings. I knew a few people who did that, it's usually a very well paid job, but it's well paid because otherwise no one in his right mind would do it. From what I heard, it's incredibly boring while at the same time…

I've heard very similar things about being a SAP consultant here in Europe - basically, it sounds like a job for someone who: - understands technology, but is not a big fan of it - can communicate with clients - can handle stress well - is into salary maximization

Doesn't mind living out of a suitcase.

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#279

Post by foldr »

oblio wrote: post #234
anonytrary wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I have kids, I'm gonna play a game with them where we look at random stuff and try to make up how it got there, and then compare that to how it really got there. I bet if you did this consistently with kids during their formative years, it would be a great way to teach them about the world and the economy. My parents just had a huge book room with encyclopedias that I was expected to pick up and read.

Have them read this: https://fee.org/resources/i-pencil-audio-pdf-and-html

This is a political tract. The only actual information that it conveys could be obtained more easily by googling "How are pencils made?"

Re: Patio11's Law: The software economy is bigger than you think

#280

Post by NikolaNovak »

sq_ wrote: post #239
NikolaNovak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it helps understand the ecosystem and its seeking oddness, this is the crucial part of article: "Implementing ERP isn’t just a purchasing decision: it’s committing to redoing how you handle operations. Installing the software is the easy part; adjusting the whole company’s workflow is the most of the work." Don't think of erp and implementing it as a software development challenge. Sure, Developers can fscrew…

This reminds me of something I read while helping a business major friend with a case study a while back. One of the readings she had as background mentioned that companies like SAP that sell ERP are almost selling the process/workflow more than the actual software. Part of me wonders if these things are more of a "no one ever got fired for buying IBM" thing than anything else. Are people buying the workflow because…

1. You're absolutely right - you're buying software, a set of best practices, workflows, and a proven way to implement and use them.

2. HR, Finance, all the backoffice stuff - that's not your competitive advantage. It's not your core business. You just want to do it as efficiently and quietly as possible.

3. Therefore, in ideal case, a company realizes it is not a special snowflake, buys an ERP, implements it as vanilla as possible, and quietly goes on focusing on what IS their competitive advantage / core business... rather than spending years, millions of dollars, and tremendous risk, by trying to customize ERP to some obscure different process they just "must" have :-/

Post reply on HN