51–60 of 280 posts
Both Fennel and Janet seem to orbit around Clojure ideas.... interestingly one of Fennel's main contributors [2] is also the author of Clojure's most popular build system, Leiningen.
Okay, so when Clojure came along, it came with a strong underlying philosophy of what the language was supposed to be/do. Among them were design decisions such as, e.g.,: - VMs, not OSes, are the platforms of the future, so target the JVM - Object Orientation is overrated, but polymorphism is a good thing - Multi-core is here to stay, so use immutable data structures to greatly facilitate writing correct concurrent p…
Yet Clojure supports a subset of CLOS, so not so much overrated after all.
janet:1:> (cons 1 2) compile error: unknown symbol cons on line 1, column 1 while compiling repl janet:2:> (list 1 2) compile error: unknown symbol list on line 2, column 1 while compiling repl janet:3:> (vector 1 2) compile error: unknown symbol vector on line 3, column 1 while compiling repl I certainly need to learn the basic idioms of this dialect; it looks nothing like Common Lisp under the hood.
Is it really Lisp without cons?
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> antiquated VM I'm always flabbergasted about the ignorance against the JVM on this site. There is nothing out there that has seen similiar research and optimisations and has so good monitoring/debugging tools.
I did a JVM targeting language as a research project, and was involved into porting KVM to an obscure architecture. It's been a while of course (early 00s) so maybe I misremember something or there were huge strides of progress in JVM. Can you jump over 64Kb in bytecode yet? Allocate a lexically scoped variable? Of course, enormous amount of work has been put into making this particular pig fly at reasonable speed. D…
Tuning can be a pain, but scaling anything is hard.
Okay, so when Clojure came along, it came with a strong underlying philosophy of what the language was supposed to be/do. Among them were design decisions such as, e.g.,: - VMs, not OSes, are the platforms of the future, so target the JVM - Object Orientation is overrated, but polymorphism is a good thing - Multi-core is here to stay, so use immutable data structures to greatly facilitate writing correct concurrent p…
The first point clearly didn't pan out. In reality, applications ended up bundling their own OSes along, so Clojure is stuck with antiquated VM on its ankle for no good reason.
2020: a programming language is named Janet; a child is named X Æ A-12. How did we come to this.
It's not really something new. Ada ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language) ) was created 40 years ago. Kids with crazy names is a long standing tradition, going back millenia :-)
Is it compiled or interpreted? If interpreted does it use existing interpreter? The description mentions Lua, does it use the Lua engine? Does it have JIT? If it is compiled is it based on LLVM?
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The first point clearly didn't pan out. In reality, applications ended up bundling their own OSes along, so Clojure is stuck with antiquated VM on its ankle for no good reason.
That "antiquated" VM is head and shoulders above any other extant runtime in compilation, GC and observability. Not only that, most of the major innovations in recent years in those areas seem to be happening there. Moving from the JVM to almost anything else -- be it Python, Go, Erlang or Node -- feels like being transported to medieval society. Don't get me wrong, some find it liberating as in, huh, I turns out I c…
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Yet Clojure supports a subset of CLOS, so not so much overrated after all.
Clojure was never against any of the ideas in OO, just that they should be accessible individually if or when they make sense. Traditional OO is very “all in”, while Clojure is very a-la-carte use the bits that make sense for the problem you are trying to solve. Clojure also encourages a data-over-objects and a functional-first approach, but when you need the OO features, they’re there and you should use them.
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That "antiquated" VM is head and shoulders above any other extant runtime in compilation, GC and observability. Not only that, most of the major innovations in recent years in those areas seem to be happening there. Moving from the JVM to almost anything else -- be it Python, Go, Erlang or Node -- feels like being transported to medieval society. Don't get me wrong, some find it liberating as in, huh, I turns out I c…
It is state of the art in the same sense that America is the uncontested leader in WWE.