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Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

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Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#321

Post by mnm1 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
ashtonkem wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always argue caution about revolution to help the poor, as there are plenty of examples where revolution killed as many poor people as it did aristocrats. Possibly the least flame war worthy example is the French Revolution. While the popular image is of the great terror killing off nobles, the reality is that most of the killings in Paris were either politicians or unfortunate merchants who refused to sell their g…

I'd say it's very hard to find any violent revolutions that improved a society. It's pretty much a long line of tragedies. I count throwing out a foreign oppressor, like the American revolution or the Czech "velvet revolution" as a separate category. Those can be good.

Communist Romania. Things improved immensely. And that was definitely not a foreign oppressor. I'm sure there are others, but yeah generally it's rare.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#322

Post by mister_hn »

The whole thing is biased.

If the so called "low-income workers" don't have this benefit (imagine: workers on system relevant jobs such as medicine, bakery, logistics, grocery), it means they deserve a higher pay than the actual one they receive.

These jobs are equally-if-not-more-relevant than jobs in other fields and must not be always labelled as "poor jobs".

Not all the jobs require a computer in this world. The ones who have to stay on place must receive a higher raise.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#323

Post by x3blah »

r1nkgrl wrote: post #318
x3blah wrote: post #250

Are farmers considered to be "working from home"?

A lot of farmers live many miles away from the properties they farm in. Modern farming is very different in America than it was 100+ years ago.

The article is about Canada not America.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#324

Post by Avicebron »

renewiltord wrote: post #272
Avicebron wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation?

Probably not going to look for one, sorry. You may prefix "From what I can see" wherever necessary should you wish to soften the claims.

I happily offer you a birth on Skid Row LA.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#325

Post by dang »

fragmede wrote: post #316

It's a highly political angle though, and the dynamics of HN (both the culture, but also the technology here - threaded with a simple up/down vote and a low engagement reply mechanism) don't handle those sort of discussions well. There are three levels on which to have an honest disagreement. Other than 0) plain misunderstanding (which I'm not counting), there's 1) a difference in philosophy, a 2) difference in infor…

Political discussions can't ever be very high-quality when they're open to literally anyone who wants to create an account. All it takes is enough activation energy to start flaming. But there are still many topics here with political overlap (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...) that it doesn't make sense, or wouldn't work, to exclude.

Thanks for the kind words about moderation.

(We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23158853)

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#326

Post by sokoloff »

throwlaplace wrote: post #256
sokoloff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're unable to move, that's 100% right. If they're able to move, even if it's just closer , it could still be a win.

so now we're down to "devs move to suburbs and poor people move a little closer" in order to improve the world? and you still don't think that this disproportionately hurts poor people? do i really have to do more work to show you how this is galaxy brain thinking?

If poor people are currently living in expensive, cramped housing because they’re forced like many others to all commute every day to the same few spots on the Earth we call big cities and we replace that with a system where much more land becomes easy to use to for housing because we’re not going to worship for 8 hours every day at the work temple, I think it’s quite possible that the poor and middle class are both substantially helped.

If your concern is that both are helped but the poor are helped slightly less and conclude from that that means we shouldn’t do it, well, that’s one approach I suppose.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#327

Post by wdb »

bsder wrote: post #194
intopieces wrote: post #179

It seems from the comments that a lot of the readers here equate "let's look at socioeconomic inequality" with "let's make sure everyone has the same socioeconomic outcome by bringing down the people who earn more." This is... a leap not found in this article. The idea is to make sure that we realize the knock-on effects of changes in the workforce / society and take measures to make sure people who have the ability…

> -Giving people computers > -Making sure people have access to broadband There should be a Rural Broadbandification Project set into motion so everybody gets fiber. This also has the advantage that it requires lots of labor like digging ditches. It also has the advantage that it would allow some of these high earners to move from turbo-high cost of living areas to much lower ones.

It's a good idea to bring broadband to the rural areas but don't forget about major cities like London. I live in Zone 1 and I can't even get fiber internet. Let alone faster internet than 16mbit. There is a lot work to be done in countries like United Kingdom.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#328

Post by rwmurrayVT »

Frondo wrote: post #295
jedberg wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes, I think it would be refreshing to do something like airline pilot where I'd probably enjoy the job overall but that it was pretty clear there's no expectation that I'd fly an airliner in my non-work time. Yeah, I've only had jobs that can be done anywhere, which is both good and bad. It gives me flexibility but also expectations. Sometimes I envy my dentist friends. They make great money, but when they l…

I sometimes -- well, I used to, heh -- share an office with a labor rep (i.e. someone who works for a union). I sometimes over hear their calls, and one of the last conversations I overheard before the pandemic really stuck with me. In reference to some kind of changing circumstance that was going to compel their rank and file to spend more time doing some work-related task, the labor rep said, "They're entitled to t…

That's a very common situation in a shipyard. It always makes me a little envious to know that the trades get paid every single minute here and often work 6 days a week. I do some work items that require a start 2 hours after sunset. The pay is the same 40 hours or 60 hours. You can guess how many engineering hours are post-40....

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#329

Post by sokoloff »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #328
Frondo wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes -- well, I used to, heh -- share an office with a labor rep (i.e. someone who works for a union). I sometimes over hear their calls, and one of the last conversations I overheard before the pandemic really stuck with me. In reference to some kind of changing circumstance that was going to compel their rank and file to spend more time doing some work-related task, the labor rep said, "They're entitled to t…

That's a very common situation in a shipyard. It always makes me a little envious to know that the trades get paid every single minute here and often work 6 days a week. I do some work items that require a start 2 hours after sunset. The pay is the same 40 hours or 60 hours. You can guess how many engineering hours are post-40....

OTOH, would you rather be paid for every single minute at $40/hour and time-and-a-half for hours over 40 per week, or paid $3000/wk no matter how many hours you actually work? There are tradeoffs on both sides.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#330

Post by mcntsh »

missedthecue wrote: post #317
taurath wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it different than trickle down economics? Won’t those coffee shops just be starbucks and grocery stores be Whole Foods and all the profit from them returned to shareholders?

"Trickle down economics" is just an internet slur for supply side economics. It certainly can work out well. A job at Whole Foods would pay a currently unemployed resident of Gary, Indiana a good amount more than he is making at present.

That's a pretty limited perspective. Economic growth doesn't benefit every business and every individual proportionally.

I know people in the Bay Area who are worse off now than they were in first dotcom burst because while software engineers might make 300% now of what they made in 2002, an auto mechanic doesn't. For many, wage growth didn't even keep up with the cost of living.

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