I trust Japanese engineering more than Cringley predictions. Let's wait and see what the engineers do. BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency - Kyodo http://twitter.com/martyn_williams/statuses/4645894316531712... ----- Govt says radioactive measurements near plant roughly doubled, confirming release of gas. http://twitter.com/martyn_williams/statuses/4645969566958387...
Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
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Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#12http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_Water_Reactor_Safety_Sy...
Combine that with these:
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031219-e....
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031220-e....
And you can see what's going on. Ignore everything else.
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#13Can they not simply ship in extra batteries, or are they batteries too large to be moved?
I rather suspect the batteries are not easily replaced - they're a tertiary system, designed to be a short-term stopgap to get your primary and secondary systems back online. I'm sure that if just cycling batteries was an option, and the battery systems are operational, they'd do that - it's a heck of a lot cheaper than pulling the killswitch on the whole plant.
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#14I trust Japanese engineering more than Cringley predictions. Let's wait and see what the engineers do. BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency - Kyodo http://twitter.com/martyn_williams/statuses/4645894316531712... ----- Govt says radioactive measurements near plant roughly doubled, confirming release of gas. http://twitter.com/martyn_williams/statuses/4645969566958387...
Right or wrong it did a better job of explaining how coolant works in nuclear reactors and how they would usually shut down than anything I have seen on the news.
Nevertheless, I'm waiting for the official verdict.
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#15Boiling water reactors are simpler, cheaper, but generally aren’t made anymore because they are perceived as being less safe. That’s because the exotic coolant in the pressurized water reactor can contain boric acid which absorbs neutrons and can help (or totally) control the nuclear reaction. You can’t use boric acid or any other soluble boron-laced neutron absorbers in a boiling water reactor because doing so would contaminate both the cooling system and the environment.
He's completely wrong about industry adoption of BWRs. There are two BWR's planned to be built in the US (along with 3 or 4 PWRs), and I believe that China has contracted with GE for a few as well (along with 4 Westinghouse PWRs and maybe a few Areva ones too).
PWRs are preferred largely because of their higher power densities (a BWR core that produces the same power must be larger) and simpler nuclear calculations and control strategies (two-phase flow makes calculations much more difficult, and it's harder to calculate correct positions for control blades (whose effects are highly localized) than it is to calculate the correct boron concentration (whose effects are smeared over the whole core)). However, now that computers are faster and us nuclear engineers no longer have the excuse of slow computers to hide behind, PWRs are looking to move away from relying on Boron concentration as the main form of control (the Westinghouse AP1000, specifically, relies much more on rod movement than the AP600), because of the cost of performing regular boron dilutions.
He's right that BWRs are simpler and cheaper - about half the moving parts.
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#16Can they not simply ship in extra batteries, or are they batteries too large to be moved?
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#17Can they not simply ship in extra batteries, or are they batteries too large to be moved?
(insert bad joke about non-user-replacable iNuke battery here) I rather suspect the batteries are not easily replaced - they're a tertiary system, designed to be a short-term stopgap to get your primary and secondary systems back online. I'm sure that if just cycling batteries was an option, and the battery systems are operational, they'd do that - it's a heck of a lot cheaper than pulling the killswitch on the whole…
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#18Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
He says " That’s why the experts didn’t expect it because they are still thinking of how the plant can be saved, but it can’t be. " I will accept that statement as true when it comes from a fact-finding mission by the Japanese nuclear authorities, not Cringely.
I think experts refers to “experts” on CNN or Fox. Here is the relevant passage in the text I think this refers to: “‘Coolant?’ wondered aloud all the CNN and Fox News nuclear experts looking for a lede for their stories. ‘What is she talking about, coolant?’” And what’s wrong with speculation? Seemed reasonable enough to me.
Cringely says Japan lost 20% of its electricity supply. I say I wont believe that figure until I hear it from the Japanese nuclear authorities themselves.
Re: Cringley: Japan may have just permanently lost 20% of its electricity supply
#20Can they not simply ship in extra batteries, or are they batteries too large to be moved?
And I'm betting they're positively puny compared to what you'd want for a nuclear plant's cooling system, so simply "shipping in" some extras may not be all that feasible...