Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#221

Post by tracker1 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

dmw_ng wrote: post #55

jamieweb wrote: post #23

I'm interested to know what the majority of the Windows machines are used for. I can't think it'd be anything other than 'big enterprise' applications, where there seems to be a lot of bespoke stuff built specifically for Windows Server (e.g. finance software, healthcare systems, marriage registration, taxi licensing, nursing home management, etc). Unfortunately this sort of stuff is fairly rare to be available in th…

You don't see it on HN much but the Windows world is still massive, and there are still plenty of ASP.NET folk around. I'd suppose you only have to take half a footstep outside the "pure Internet services" sphere to start bumping into lots of Windows, in pretty much any direction you happen to step. There are also whole industries where Windows has a particularly strong influence, e.g. (from experience) some parts of…

I'm glad that the next ".Net Core" will be ".Net 5" and hopefully once people start upgrading (those who resisted "Core" will finally come over), should see Linux as a target option more readily. Of course commercial libraries and dragging them by the teeth will take longer.

Most of what I've written in the past 5+ years either targets or runs in linux/docker. It's been a challenge pulling the teams up to spead.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#222

Post by sam_bristow » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:16 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #47

jamieweb wrote: post #23

I'm interested to know what the majority of the Windows machines are used for. I can't think it'd be anything other than 'big enterprise' applications, where there seems to be a lot of bespoke stuff built specifically for Windows Server (e.g. finance software, healthcare systems, marriage registration, taxi licensing, nursing home management, etc). Unfortunately this sort of stuff is fairly rare to be available in th…

>>The wackiest one I've come across is a CMS (Crematorium Management System). If anyone is looking for something to open source: Meet manager. Since the 90s it has been the go-to software for running competative swimming meets (timing, heats organization etc). It's a niche market but is alway a very broad and steady user base. (Similar software is also used for track and field meets.) http://activesupport.force.com/h…

On a first skim of I thought you were saying there was crematorium software called "Meat Manager". I'm glad I was wrong.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#223

Post by tracker1 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:19 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #177

dmw_ng wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see it on HN much but the Windows world is still massive, and there are still plenty of ASP.NET folk around. I'd suppose you only have to take half a footstep outside the "pure Internet services" sphere to start bumping into lots of Windows, in pretty much any direction you happen to step. There are also whole industries where Windows has a particularly strong influence, e.g. (from experience) some parts of…

In the mid 2000s I was working on scientific computing software running on RHEL workstations for a huge oil company. One day our customer inside this huge oil corp told us the entire worldwide company was standardizing on Windows for desktops and workstations. He said not to worry right away, because it would take them years to rip his team's lab full of Linux workstations out of his hands. I'm sure that was a massiv…

That's rough... Unfortunately Windows authentication and access mgt software rules the world... I remember a lot of issues in a few environments with macOS over the years.

At least with wsl2 I get the Linux goodness and decent docker support finally, hopefully it can roll out of insiders in into GA soon so everyone can get their hands on it.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#224

Post by jshevek » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:20 PM UTC

qubex wrote: post #111

aea12 wrote: post #107

Yeah, those plebeian tool swingers often woefully misinterpret the shrewd protocols of someone who non-ironically shares that “unfortunately another human had a personal conversation with me after I started a business conversation”. It’s a real problem. Sorry that happened to you. Better to avoid people entirely and stick to Excel, in my experience, but the good news is you got a completely appropriate and tasteful a…

What On Earth are you talking about??

I think this site would be improved if there were a guideline discouraging not just snark, but also sarcasm. Sarcasm is often a technique for covering unwarranted accusations, strawmen, bitterness, and worse behind vague innuendo and implication, which makes it more difficult to uncover and address the real nature of the toxicity and dysfunction motivating the sarcastic comments.

If a commenter is encouraged to voice their criticism and premises more directly and explicitly, the merit (or lack thereof) of their position is more readily subject to honest examination.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#225

Post by tracker1 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #133

jamieweb wrote: post #23

I'm interested to know what the majority of the Windows machines are used for. I can't think it'd be anything other than 'big enterprise' applications, where there seems to be a lot of bespoke stuff built specifically for Windows Server (e.g. finance software, healthcare systems, marriage registration, taxi licensing, nursing home management, etc). Unfortunately this sort of stuff is fairly rare to be available in th…

A few use cases come to mind: - Microsoft often bundles discounts for their their desktop and server licenses (used for AD and such) with Azure credits. Managers are under pressure to use the free service to deliver value, so teams are told to spin up things in azure as they see fit. reject the credits and reject the discount for the stuff you do use. - Office 365, Outlook, Xbox Live, Xbox Music and Video, the Micros…

Azure has some decent services, and a lot of people do run Windows beyond MS's own services. That said, I'm surprised the Linux users aren't closer to 75%, and bet they will be with kubernetes uptick over time for newer projects.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#226

Post by tracker1 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:23 PM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #215

cosmotic wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, I ran away from the Microsoft world because everyone was just 'drinking the koolaid'. I got out, into Python and django, and the problem was similar: everyone was drinking just a different koolaid. ASP.NET MVC C# with EF has got to be one of the most solid web frameworks I've ever used. Open-source fanatics refuse to listen about why it's great... even though it's open source now.

I think I've kinda protected myself from that by working across multiple operating systems and different stacks. I think a lot of devs would do well to try different frameworks, different ways of programming (myself included). I think EF might get a bad rap because it's pretty closely tied to MS SQL Server - and if you don't know exactly what you're doing it will write some pretty hideous queries for you.

Should give Dapper a try, much cleaner imho... Though one of the projects I'm on is no abstraction at all.. most of the calls are via sprocs and using JSON for data input/output from the db directly.

edit: by no abstraction, we have like 4 db methods that have a different generic type interface, but that's it across hundreds of different SP calls at the API later.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#227

Post by tw04 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

balnaphone wrote: post #209

tw04 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SQL? There are literally millions of production SQL databases out there and custom apps built on top of them - and while MS may have created a Linux port, there's no planet on which the average enterprise is moving to SQL on Linux without VERY good reason (and there currently isn't one that I can see outweighing the risk).

A company I consult for specializes in SQL Server applications. There is a significant push to Linux from both the largest customers, paying over 150k$/month for server licensing and hosting, and from the smallest companies, who are severely budget-conscious. The big customers have teams fluent in both Linux and Windows, and the smallest outsource their DBAs and sysadmins, so in both cases the cost is mostly a one-ti…

I'm surprised to hear that to be quite honest. The feature gap is still pretty significant for any serious production deployment. MS is working hard to close the gap, but given basic enterprise features like database mirroring still aren't there - I'm not sure why any large enterprise would shift at this point.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/linux/sql-server-linux-...

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#228

Post by freefriedrice » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

skissane wrote: post #106

outworlder wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor is there any consistency with the windows registry. Except that, by being such a pain in the posterior, noone edits it manually anymore and all changes are done through GUI apps. Editing config files is easier and faster (not to mention, automatable), so people don't bother creating "control panels" on Linux for the most part. > What would be interesting is a complete re-imagining of a server OS Not sure how 'com…

> Nor is there any consistency with the windows registry. The Windows registry is a bad implementation of a good concept. Imagine if the registry had a schema with embedded documentation, foreign key relationships, a packages database with each key owned by a package, etc...

I've wrestled with this for DECADES!

I've built software with a configuration database (Windows registry) and with flat configuration file-folders (*nix). I feel like I'm running in a circle because the trade-offs are so equally balanced that there's no best-case. From considering backups and database consistency, to tripwire malware detection of changed settings, to automation of access, to consistency in naming, retrieval, and type conventions, to self-documentation, to backwards compatibility... At this point I'm not even sure I would understand the correct or "best" methodology if it was handed to me on a silver platter.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#229

Post by terrywang » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:28 PM UTC

amaccuish wrote: post #218

terrywang wrote: post #200

Worked on XenServer for Citrix (XenSource) for a couple of years (fun ride), I was told / also discovered that most XenServer pools were used to run Windows infra to support XenDesktop / ICA based remote access;-) Now Linux has won over 50% of server market share in MicroSoft Azure, where I believe Hyper-V running on Windows is the hypervisor (Hyper-V is closely related to Xen). - Linux has won (in the cloud). - No o…

I really wish Citrix would still do a home-oriented XenApp/XenDesktop. I still find ICA weirdly better than RDP, it's so much smoother.

I think VDI is still Citrix's core competency. They merged XenApp with XenDesktop and later on turned into something called Citrix Workspace, I haven't been following Citrix products other than XenServer (my only interest joining back then).

It's not cheap to run and maintain XenDesktop based VDI infra for remote access. But I agree, ICA (improved RDP) and its client Receiver (works on Linux at least used to ;-) offers unique and seamless user experience working remotely.

Re: Linux is Most Used OS in Microsoft Azure – over 50 percent of VM cores

#230

Post by freefriedrice » Tue, May 12, 2020, 11:33 PM UTC

bitcharmer wrote: post #65

martinald wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both are a mess under the hood. I cannot make sense of where things will be configured in Linux. maybe /etc/, maybe somewhere else, with loads of setting file configurations. There's not a huge amount of consistency. What would be interesting is a complete re-imagining of a server OS. Consistent file locations for everything, which are automatically versioned a la git allowing you to roll back any specific ch…

I'd still take a heavily configurable and customizable "mess", as you put it, than the one that doesn't allow me to control how it works. There's a good reason why Linux absolutely dominates the server space.

When I worked for a large semiconductor company from late 1980's till early 2000's, I saw IT move from a ghastly mix of AIX, HPUX and SunOS terminals & distributed computing to 100% Linux ... in under 2 years!!

It was like someone flipped a switch and suddenly there was only one type of environment for all computing (we used something else besides VNC to manage remote X sessions, I forget what it was, it was some weird launcher for Windows).

IT claimed hundreds of millions in savings due to not having to pay for AIX, HPUX and SunOS licensing. I think the cost is what tipped the scales.