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Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#571

Post by chasd00 »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

my response to the "we're family!" pitch is quoting Goodfellas, "f*ck you pay me".

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#572

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

xenocyon wrote: post #355
daenz wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a related thought: is it ethical to pay a person less based purely on where they live? I understand that there are different cost of living factors for different places, but that's on the employee's side and should be none of the employer's business. If they employer can pay $200k/yr for a remote employee, it shouldn't matter where they live, and so scaling that value seems discriminatory to me. Anyone have…

> If they employer can pay $200k/yr for a remote employee It's interesting that folks envisioning a globally uniform payscale tend to posit SF salaries in Hanoi rather than Hanoi salaries in SF.

Not really. I think we just assume that the situations where housing can't keep up with employment would shift the `income minus necessities` equation in our favor, making the massive assumption that we're willing to move somewhere cheap, or that enough other people are willing to move somewhere cheap, or just not move here in the first place. If the necessity of commuting to SF goes away, SF housing prices are less impacted, so it's more like Portland salaries in SF, and closer-to-Portland cost of living in SF.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#573

Post by iso947 »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #313
dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

Im firmly in that demographic. Working from home has been pretty awful; don't have space for a secondary office in my 500sqft of nyc apartment, and have found the whole experience to be terribly isolating. Maybe it's different for people with families, but I'd never give up the perks of city living and office connections to be so alone (regardless on how much extra money I'd be saving).

How much of a pay cut are you willing to take for your company to furnish you with an office in central New York?

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#574

Post by walshemj »

5cott0 wrote: post #536
chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

If a company tells you "we're a family" that means they are going to damage you psychologically.

Is any one else thinking of the Phillip Larkin poem here

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#575

Post by walshemj »

jedberg wrote: post #377
gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial" Not all cultures are like this. I had a German coworker who would always complain about how much time we spend socializing at work (while socializing with us). He would tell us, "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer…

And slam down so many Litres of beer in 2 hours- that in a US company people would start leaving aa leaflets on your desk.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#576

Post by opportune »

dcolkitt wrote: post #533
chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

> No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Research in industrial psychology consistently demonstrates that managers are extremely hesitant to fire workers, particularly when the human welfare costs are high.[1] They'll consistently keep workers employed well past the point where it's economically justified. So, I'd say for most people co-workers are not "fam…

There are second order effects to firing people. Even if I'm doing a great job and enjoying my work, I'm going to get stressed out if I see 10% of my coworkers get fired every performance review cycle. Sure it would be nice if people who don't carry their weight were replaced but in any profession where productivity is non-objective, that's scary.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#577

Post by artsyca »

gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

I'm reading 'The Culture Code' and from what it says all elite teams qualify themselves as family

That most corporations fail at it doesn't mean it's not the ideal

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#578

Post by jedberg »

odiroot wrote: post #537
jedberg wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial" Not all cultures are like this. I had a German coworker who would always complain about how much time we spend socializing at work (while socializing with us). He would tell us, "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer…

> "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer together before we go home to our families" Definitely not the case here in Berlin. All of my jobs here had plenty of post-work socialising, some even obligatory. During work itself, people also tend to spend a lot of time in "kitchen area" or browsing Facebook, chatting on WhatsApp etc…

This was 17 years ago when he said it, and he was talking about his time in Germany in the late 80s/ early 90s.

Maybe the culture has shifted since then.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#579

Post by pimterry »

dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

In part, I think some of the young there are on to something. I love working remote now, but one thing remote is bad at is training, especially the intensive training you want at a junior level. I would've had a much harder time learning core work skills (how to do actual work, but also time management, communication, ...) without the super close contact you get in person.

Imo, remote is a big perk once you have a couple of years of professional work under your belt, but a real challenge before that point.

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