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Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#531

Post by netcan »

papito wrote: post #467
chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

"We are a family" is bullshit. You need to be a pretty egregious repeat offender to be ostracized from a real family. A company can fire you on a whim, simply because someone with a business degree sorted a spreadsheet with salaries in descending order, and you were in the top 20. The more correct analogy is a sports team. Everyone works well together to win the medal, but it's much more pragmatic in that sense. Perh…

Well... "team" isn't even an analogy. It literally means a group working together. Sports teams are an instance.

OTOH... our gut-definition of teams is a pretty tight group working very cooperatively. It definitely doesn't feel right to describe Microsoft as a "team," family or whatever.

Anyway, I disagree... kinda. I agree that "We are a family" is bullshit, but I don't think "detached and non-emotional" is a viable strategy. We humans can't be detached and unemotional about such a major thing in our life. That road leads to misery.... which is where a lot of us are in our work lives.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#532

Post by gregkerzhner »

acid__ wrote: post #413
jedberg wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "chit chat" is a basic part of human interaction. Even for remote companies it still happens.

Agreed, I'm always surprised to see comments like the one you're replying to, and how often they're upvoted. I suppose HN tends to attract a slice of humanity that tends to appreciate casual social interaction a little less, even when compared to the tech sector as a whole. But in my experience transitioning from a very awkward asocial teenager (who would have shared such a view) to a slightly less awkward adult, I'v…

Curious, do you have meaningful hobbies and activities outside of work? I often find that people who are so keen on social interaction at work don't have other things they are passionate about.

I am not saying I hate social interaction. If I had to chose between being locked in my basement and not seeing anyone and going to the office, I would chose the office. However, if the choice is between more time and freedom outside of work vs more in office interactions, then I chose the former.

Again though, if you are the type of person that highly values that in-office camaraderie, you are free to join a coworking space and get that. You can still commute and ask your deskmate how your day went.

Im not like that though - I like to wake up early, get my work done, and spend my afternoons rock climbing with a different group of people who are my close friends. The value I get out of this is way higher than building (often) superficial relationships with my coworkers.

Thats the nice thing about working remotley - you can pick what you do with your time. Forcing everyone to indulge in office socialization just because some people enjoy it is a disservice to those who don't.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#533

Post by dcolkitt »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

> No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home.

Research in industrial psychology consistently demonstrates that managers are extremely hesitant to fire workers, particularly when the human welfare costs are high.[1] They'll consistently keep workers employed well past the point where it's economically justified.

So, I'd say for most people co-workers are not "family". But it's certainly a closer human social bond than an arms length economic transaction in most circumstances.

[1]https://www.econlib.org/archives/2012/06/firing_aversion_2.h...

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#535

Post by commandlinefan »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

> My family would let me sleep on their couch

I can tell off-color jokes around my real family. I censor the ever-loving hell out of myself when I'm with my "work" family. I talk about work, and nothing else.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#536

Post by 5cott0 »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #412

For me too many companies use the "family" aspect of things too much. No, we're not a family. My family would let me sleep on their couch if I got fired or lost my home. Does the company plan to let me live in the office if they let me go? Are we still doing Thanksgiving? What about a family tree, whos going to keep that up after I die? But seriously, after seeing some nasty employee outcomes over a few jobs it kind…

If a company tells you "we're a family" that means they are going to damage you psychologically.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#537

Post by odiroot »

jedberg wrote: post #377
gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial" Not all cultures are like this. I had a German coworker who would always complain about how much time we spend socializing at work (while socializing with us). He would tell us, "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer…

> "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer together before we go home to our families"

Definitely not the case here in Berlin. All of my jobs here had plenty of post-work socialising, some even obligatory.

During work itself, people also tend to spend a lot of time in "kitchen area" or browsing Facebook, chatting on WhatsApp etc.

The "put our heads down for hours" thing is not something I have ever observed.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#538

Post by amiga_500 »

psweber wrote: post #501
_bxg1 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that it takes a lot more intentional effort, which many of us may struggle to put forth. The vast majority of friendships are made in incidental contexts: people you just happen to be around and interact with through the normal course of life. Many adults struggle to make and maintain friendships when they no longer have school forcing them to be around peers, and become very isolated. I think your in…

You're describing the status quo before the crisis. We weren't suffering from excess happiness and satisfaction. It's time for something new. The new things are yet to be determined.

Agreed. Let's not just give in because many here are unpopular and want to go back to a world that forces someone to sit next to them.

People who define themselves through their work are depressing and need to wake up.

The old future is cancelled. Good. It was a bad future.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#539

Post by kantrowitz »

throwaway713 wrote: post #182
dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

If I could keep my current compensation and move to the low cost of living area where my family is located, I would reach financial independence 10-15 years ahead of my current trajectory with Bay Area rents/costs. I'll settle for the minor inconveniences of WFH any day in order to get a decade of my life to spend with family or to work on my own projects.

Hey! I'd love to hear more about this. Want to chat? My email is alex.kantrowitz at Gmail dot com

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#540

Post by amiga_500 »

SaltyBackendGuy wrote: post #431
_bxg1 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside is that it takes a lot more intentional effort, which many of us may struggle to put forth. The vast majority of friendships are made in incidental contexts: people you just happen to be around and interact with through the normal course of life. Many adults struggle to make and maintain friendships when they no longer have school forcing them to be around peers, and become very isolated. I think your in…

> people you just happen to be around and interact with through the normal course of life My experience in the military supports this argument. I have a few life long friends through this experience. Some of which I disliked initially. Although, I do agree with the spirit of GP 's argument. You don't have to be in the office to be social and you get so much of your time back it's hard to justify the time cost if the…

Strong friendships are forged through shared adversity. Military probably ticks that box.
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