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Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

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Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#401

Post by esoterica »

fermienrico wrote: post #85

Then why pay $200k for a software engineer in the valley when the same talent can live outside of the bay area and can do with 1/3rd of the salary? The question I have is what portion of the $200k salary is 1) due to the raw talent of the individual 2) because they live in the bay area.

> Then why pay $200k for a software engineer in the valley when the same talent can live outside of the bay area and can do with 1/3rd of the salary

That is a pretty ridiculous assertion. Rent and taxes are higher but they are not $130k/year higher.

You can even save >$70k of the $200k you make in the bay area without being exceptionally frugal, which you obviously can't do if you're making $70k/year.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#402

Post by [deleted] »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #54
chrisseaton wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why? Salaries are high because you're competing for the same small group of talented people. They aren't high due to the location.

I'm pretty sure the salaries are heavily dependent on location related cost of living requirements. Aren't salaries different in different locations? (ie. same company with offices in Vancouver Canada vs Seattle vs SF?) I've heard they are... If pay was purely about talent, everyone would be paid the same.

[deleted]

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#403

Post by vsareto »

jedberg wrote: post #377
gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial" Not all cultures are like this. I had a German coworker who would always complain about how much time we spend socializing at work (while socializing with us). He would tell us, "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer…

I really wish I had taken a job in Germany when I had the chance. That seems way better than figuring out small talk.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#404

Post by capableweb »

hota_mazi wrote: post #364
wlll wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for places that pay me for what I'm worth, I don't work for places that pay me based on where I live. I'm not cranking out code that is somehow less effective while living in the NW England, and so to pay me less than someone else is downright insulting. I also, to be clear, don't have any hard feelings about people who live in even cheaper[0] places than me, it's their choice. I used to work with a guy in the…

> I work for places that pay me for what I'm worth, I don't work for places that pay me based on where I live. That is very short sighted. Your dollar value is highly dependent on where you live, that's just reality.

I think you're missing the context here, we're talking about remote positions. Maybe what the company expect to pay depends on where the company's HQ is, if they have one, that kind of makes sense. But the company's cost for an employee shouldn't take the location of the (remote) employee into account because that has nothing to do with the hiring/work whatsoever.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#406

Post by s1artibartfast »

echelon wrote: post #399
fermienrico wrote: post #85

Then why pay $200k for a software engineer in the valley when the same talent can live outside of the bay area and can do with 1/3rd of the salary? The question I have is what portion of the $200k salary is 1) due to the raw talent of the individual 2) because they live in the bay area.

I live in Atlanta and make over $200k total comp. As do my coworkers. I think your perception about salaries outside of the valley is skewed.

no offense intended, but how does that compare the an equivalent position in the valley? The point is not so helpful without the reference.

For example, are you equivalent to a L3 with 0 years of experience at google making 200K, or an L6 with 10 years experience making 600k?

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#407

Post by dwoot »

pmlnr wrote: post #382
101404 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socializing is just as easily possible when working from home. Just meet for a coffee in Zoom or Skype or Whereby and "video chat" for an hour or so. Those are usually my most productive meetings.

Why would I "socialize" with colleagues? I'd rather do that with communities I actually share an interest with. (If a colleague happens to be part of it, ok, but it's rare.) For many of us, a workplace is a very small piece of our consciousness, and thus, the amount of shared interest with colleagues is bleak.

I think having a choice of being on-prem and/or completely remote is fine

But I'd like to mention that it seems like a few people are forgetting about how they met their friends in the first place -- for a vast majority of us, the answer is school, something we sort of had no choice over and were sort of forced into. I participate in quite a few forums and sub-Reddits, but how many of them turn into actual real connections beyond the digital ones is slim.

Secondly, in response to those that want to only choose who they want to hang out with -- the flip-side of that is group-think and echo-chamber-ism by not subjecting oneself to orthogonal perspectives...

Lastly, as people in technology, we have choices about where to work -- find a place that works on something that you like with people that you like. I have a hard time empathizing with those that say, "we don't have a choice". Yes, getting a job, as a dev can be a grind, but imagine being a musician or an artist or an architect. Honestly, people in tech have it best -- in all other fields you're absolutely stuck and we're here bitching about WFH policies...

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#408

Post by toohotatopic »

gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

According to The Paradox of Choice[1], more freedom doesn't necessarily lead to more happiness.

Without choice, people can grow on each other. With friends, we move on if it becomes difficult. With coworkers we have an opportunity for personal growth. In a way, coworkers are more like family than friends.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#409

Post by jMyles »

gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

I have found that I'm more social (and more socially available) with my colleagues in an all-remote company. I chat with them day and night, regardless of time zone. Our kids video chat with each other. We listen to each other's music.

Rather than feeling like statues that live in an office and turn to stone at 5PM, only to reawaken the next morning, my colleagues actually feel more like human beings in this config.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#410

Post by prepperpotts »

jedberg wrote: post #377
gregkerzhner wrote: post #356

I think if you work with a brilliant group of coworkers that you love to hangout out with, then you are lucky and I can see how you miss being in the office. But, thats not the case for many of us. The crux of work relationships is that they are not voluntary. You might get lucky and have ones you love, or you might get some that are distracting, or at worse, you dislike. Either way though you are stuck with them. I…

> I think people get stuck in the mental construct of "office = socializing" therefore "no office = antisocial" Not all cultures are like this. I had a German coworker who would always complain about how much time we spend socializing at work (while socializing with us). He would tell us, "In Germany, we come to work, we put our heads down for seven hours and work, then we all go out and spend two hours drinking beer…

this is very similar to scandinavian cultures. in comparison, american work culture feels extremely centered around social interactions.
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