Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#221

Post by robbyking » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #204

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having a very hard time staying motivated in the current context. Kids at home yelling at each other, other coworkers distracted, work tasks badly defined without the ability to verbally hash things out, emotional / mental health stress due to the current scenario. I don't feel like the current scenario is indicative of a well structured WFH setup, even though we've been doing it for 2 months now. In short I hop…

I’m really starting to resent my childless co-workers and their ability to just work happily all day long. My day is basically split up into maybe 20m at a time where I can do something before being distracted. I end up working during the night to catch up (just got done), but this is unsustainable long term.

Could you imagine how rad it must be to work from home without kids?

My wife and I both work full time with a 3yo at home, so rather than put him in front of a screen we work in shifts - one of us does 6:30 ᴀ.ᴍ. to 12:30, then we switch until 6:30. It's really tough.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#222

Post by TomVDB » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

andarleen wrote: post #138

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #61

It's strange how we went from open offices to always work from home 100% remote teams. I like going to the office. As an engineer, I very much dislike open offices, they're noisy, hard to work in, the extra collaboration is mostly just unnecessary interruption that could have been brought up in Sack, and as we now know also a really great way transmit contagions around a team. I'd be happy if we just go back to offic…

I will have to shamelessly try and sway you. Get a large house, a swimming pool, a home office room with all the games and gadgets you ever wanted, a nice surround 5.1 system optically connected to a gaming pc, a nice couch to rest now and then and plan your code ahead. See if you still miss your cubicle (nothing wrong with that, but just what i wrote a thought). Thats my lifestyle since i starting working remotely.…

I have everything you list above, and I'm not swayed.

I still looking forward to going back to normal. I've never been the social butterfly who sees tons of friends on a regular basis out of work, and yet I enjoy talking to others. Work gives me that, lunch at work gives me that too.

Some of my colleagues are razor smart. I can have lunch time discussions about rocketry or special video coding algorithms or War time cryptography, just random interesting stuff that I'd never have otherwise.

Working at home has some benefits, but how many times do you really use that swimming pool?

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#223

Post by Barrin92 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

deeblering4 wrote: post #167

dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

Why would people fitting this description not prefer the flexibility of working remotely? As an aside -- I prefer not to use the term "work from home", as the ideal (for me) is the ability to work from anywhere at my option. Also, for what it's worth, co-working spaces can be a workable alternative to a traditional office.

I am of that age and I can say I have hated the last few weeks working from home. I feel isolated and I like talking at work, I also have an easier time actually doing work at a workplace rather than sitting at home, also I just like going out grabbing a few drinks after work.

Of course the latter is more an issue of the pandemic right now than just remote work in principle but I have the sense that remote working also leads to less spontaneous interaction.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#224

Post by deeblering4 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #39

dumbfoundded wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collaboration tools are already pretty solid. What else do you really need other than a remote desktop + video conferencing? I think the biggest use case will be helping recreate the virtual water cooler.

Why do I need either of those things? If I'm going to work from home permanently then whatever computers I need can come with me. Face-to-face meetings are a justification for middle management to exist; remote work due to pandemic is going to lay bare the stupidity of managers and their ranks will be greatly reduced. I predict that the written word is going to make a big comeback.

Yes, in my experience the key to a highly functional remote environment is async collaboration.

By this I mean written roundtables/stand-ups (with a focus on putting the detail in the tickets and just bringing up blockers), written RFCs and review periods for larger initiatives, comprehensive action logs (admin logs, etc), detailed documentation, detailed commit messages, etc etc.

Deadlines are fine, but people need to be able to be aware of the timeline up front and have autonomy to work within their own schedule to meet it.

This becomes especially important when multiple time zones come into play.

Essentially it's a matter of replacing as many meetings as possible with recored (written and/or multimedia) versions that convey the same content, focusing on maximizing transparency and collaboration.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#225

Post by the_gipsy » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

mjayhn wrote: post #140

fermienrico wrote: post #85

Then why pay $200k for a software engineer in the valley when the same talent can live outside of the bay area and can do with 1/3rd of the salary? The question I have is what portion of the $200k salary is 1) due to the raw talent of the individual 2) because they live in the bay area.

I wfh and I won't work for a company that bases my pay on my zipcode (Gitlab). I want complete flexibility on where I live. There are plenty of remote companies that don't do that, especially now post-covid. I wish more people would reject zip code COL so that companies starting to WFH don't just take Gitlabs idea of it.

Wait, so you can move to a super expensive place and the company will subsidize your mortgage investment?

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#226

Post by cmrdporcupine » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #204

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having a very hard time staying motivated in the current context. Kids at home yelling at each other, other coworkers distracted, work tasks badly defined without the ability to verbally hash things out, emotional / mental health stress due to the current scenario. I don't feel like the current scenario is indicative of a well structured WFH setup, even though we've been doing it for 2 months now. In short I hop…

I’m really starting to resent my childless co-workers and their ability to just work happily all day long. My day is basically split up into maybe 20m at a time where I can do something before being distracted. I end up working during the night to catch up (just got done), but this is unsustainable long term.

My partner is home and doing most of the stuff with the children, which is great... but it's still going on in the background. With lots of conflict. Two kids -- including an adolescent going through some serious adolescent stuff right now -- and a border collie rampaging around the house.

Fun times :-)

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#227

Post by mjayhn » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

gen220 wrote: post #198

mjayhn wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wfh and I won't work for a company that bases my pay on my zipcode (Gitlab). I want complete flexibility on where I live. There are plenty of remote companies that don't do that, especially now post-covid. I wish more people would reject zip code COL so that companies starting to WFH don't just take Gitlabs idea of it.

Is this a popular thing inside of gitlab? Personally, I'm conflicted: it's an interesting experiment, and I get where it comes from, but it's perhaps a bit too nearsighted. In the end, I think zipcode (and COL) is a weak proxy for talent. It's very easy to measure zipcode, compared to talent. But, think about it from the other angle: if you have a history of this talent (earning high salaries in high-COL zip codes or…

Gitlabs salaries are historically low compared to what I'd expect, but their talent is also much more global than a lot of big tech corps so while you won't find someone from CA expecting a "high" CA salary there you'll find a lot of great global talent that probably has a more difficult time working at a $big_name since they might not have offices in their country.

None of the salaries I've seen there seem remotely "senior/architect" level if you want Bay/WA talent.

That's the way I see the company, at least.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#228

Post by almost_usual » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

2bitencryption wrote: post #114

It's odd how HN does not reflect the reality I see. I'm at a big (Google/Microsoft/Amazon) workplace and WFH has always been a last-resort thing. I can't even imagine my team moving toward this. Every day I do too many things in the office that are face-to-face. Drop by the architect to get an opinion about XYZ, drop by a PM to ask about their functional spec, drop by a coworker to ask about some comments they left o…

Maybe people need to learn to do this better virtually? In theory it should be faster remote than in person. You are communicating at the speed of light, if someone is ignoring you that’s a different issue.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#229

Post by Vysero » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

throwaway713 wrote: post #182

dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

If I could keep my current compensation and move to the low cost of living area where my family is located, I would reach financial independence 10-15 years ahead of my current trajectory with Bay Area rents/costs. I'll settle for the minor inconveniences of WFH any day in order to get a decade of my life to spend with family or to work on my own projects.

I couldn't agree more. If I could work from home permanently I would move far far away from where I am currently living. I would get myself a nice condo or small house, and settle in. Currently, where I live, despite the fact that I make almost 30k/year more than the medium average income I still can only just afford a one bedroom apartment spending the suggested 30% of my income. Imagine being able to buy a house!!!! What a world that would be!!!

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#230

Post by amiga_500 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

ram_rar wrote: post #172

dddbbb wrote: post #137

I work at a large tech company on a young team (average age is late twenties). In my experience many don't view working from home regularly as a benefit. I understand that must change drastically when you're middle aged, have a family to live around and a spacious house in the suburbs. But most younger people want to live in the middle of the city (i.e. small, often shared apartments but a short commute) and have no…

I perfectly fit the profile you described. I live in SF in a small apt. I can easily afford a much bigger place for the same amount. But working with collegues @ office is a soo much fun. if the company gets fully remote, its really hard to connect with coworkers and hangout.

What about if all of society did this, and you all had a great webcam, and for lunch you went out locally with your local friends, then when you knock off at 5pm you have all agreed to play soccer down the local park at 5:10pm ?

We can have a nice local life that flourishes, once the utterly stupid situation of having everyone converge at the same time on a fixed point is forever slain.