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Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

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Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose your praise is more due to Darwin's original book, although it is much less accessible nowadays - Dawkins does indeed explain it well. The thing that struck me was how Darwin's ideas achieved such quick adoption, even in that most pious of times, where to avow yourself an athiest was unthinkable. It's an idea, once you are exposed to it, is so immensely powerful and perhaps even to say in hindsight obvious…

Darwin's book stayed very clearly away from any talk about religion. Years later religious arguments against Darwin popped up. Dawkins' book addresses these religious arguments head on.

I haven't read that particular book of Dawkins, but I have encountered a mathematical argument I find somewhat troubling, though I don't have the background to really examine it in depth.

It's discussed in this interview here:

https://youtu.be/noj4phMT9OE

Essentially the number of possible configurations of the sequence of a piece of genetic code required to produce the instructions for producing a usable protein are something like 10^77 to 1. The state space is filled with an astronomical amount of unusable junk.

The next part of the argument hinges on the Cambrian explosion. They claim that mathematically there isn't enough time for life produce enough trials to give rise to the amount of species seen during that period given the duration of the period and the sheer number of combinations life has to try in order to find viable ones.

They sort of say that Darwin was like Newton. A good enough explanation of a large portion of observable phenomenon, but it breaks down at the edges and a new theory is needed.

They seem to want to fill it with Intelligent Design. I'm an atheist myself, so I don't feel compelled to fill it with the god of the gaps, so to speak. But I'm finding it hard to accept Darwin as the whole answer.

Does Dawkins book address this? Is there any book that addresses this?

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#572
post #100

"Permutation City" by Greg Egan is mind-bending in a way similar to The Matrix, except taken up a few notches. Explores the consequences of consciousness being just a pattern. Would it continue if the pattern is paused? Seems yes, since we survive being unconscious. So we move in space and time, but still consciousness feels continuous. What if you pause it, destroy it, recreate it somewhere else. Would it not contin…

In this theme, "The Mind's I" by Hofstadter and Dennett is an interesting combination of short-form sci-fi and philosophy of consciousness.

It presents a well-chosen sci-fi story that explores an extreme modification to one of the parameters of consciousness, followed by an essay analyzing the consequences of that thought experiment.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur on the Vinge picks. The Vinge story that really blew my mind was "Marooned in Realtime", which I contend is best read in the context of the other works in "Across Realtime": https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/167844.Across_Realtime For mind games, I submit "Kiln People" by David Brin. What if you could fork your consciousness into another body and rejoin periodically? "Kiln People" explores this idea in som…

I found Deepness in The Sky an incredibly frustrating read. I _really_ didn’t enjoy the switching between perspective of human and alien. (Especially the personification) I was able to get about a third of the way through the book because my friends kept saying it gets better... but it’s a thick book and I just didn’t get it as I kept chugging If I’m reading fiction it’s OK to put a book down. I ask you, dear interne…

It's building up to a tricky denouement, but if you're not also enjoying the journey, I'd say it's not for you. Some of what I like about Vinge:

- Imaginatively exploring grand futures.

- Evocative hints you have to fill in yourself.

- Intelligent characters.

- Computer security as an often central concern.

- Tightness. There's a reason he barely manages a novel a decade.

- The prose style just breathes sense-of-wonder to me.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur on the Vinge picks. The Vinge story that really blew my mind was "Marooned in Realtime", which I contend is best read in the context of the other works in "Across Realtime": https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/167844.Across_Realtime For mind games, I submit "Kiln People" by David Brin. What if you could fork your consciousness into another body and rejoin periodically? "Kiln People" explores this idea in som…

I found Deepness in The Sky an incredibly frustrating read. I _really_ didn’t enjoy the switching between perspective of human and alien. (Especially the personification) I was able to get about a third of the way through the book because my friends kept saying it gets better... but it’s a thick book and I just didn’t get it as I kept chugging If I’m reading fiction it’s OK to put a book down. I ask you, dear interne…

I loved A Fire Upon the Deep, but I thought Deepness was a little disappointing because the aliens aren't alien enough. They seem like regular people who happen to look like bugs and who sometimes need to hibernate because of how their sun works. Ironically, it seems like the all-human Emergency is Vinge's vehicle to explore an alien way of thinking.

A Fire Upon the Deep has a much bigger scope and includes a menagerie of truly weird aliens.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#575
Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino

Prose poems, short 1-2 page descriptions of fictional cities. It’s a good gift to give and I like to pick it up at random, open to a random one, and sit with the imagery it conjures.

If I had a ‘you could bring one thing to a deserted island’ then that would be it.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#576
I recommend Plutarch's Lives, I own the Oxford World's Classics translations of 'Roman Lives' and 'Greek lives' and the stories told between the two alone allow to you build a mental model of the nature of mankind, the rise and fall of empires, and the "vicissitudes of fortune".

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#577

For Mind games, something from the Culture series - Use of Weapons which does have a nice twist. For sheer scale and sensawunda - A Fire Upon the Deep and Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge.

I miss Ian M. Banks deeply. What a fantastic mind. Even after watching interviews with him, I find it so surprising that he built such a fantastic universe. Excession is definitely my favorite. What a wonderful wonderful journey of exploration.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#578
post #197

House of Leaves is a great novel. Will feel like a completely fresh take on narrative form. Infinite Jest is also great, if you haven't read it. It gets a lot of bad press mostly due to being fetishized by a particular type of insufferable person. The book has its flaws, but is a great piece of writing and (depending how old you are, where you are in life, etc) may offer a different lens. Also, the writing is excelle…

I didn't finish Infinite Jest. I found it kind of insufferable. I really don't want to detract from anyone who found it enjoyable; it's surely a monumental work. But personally it felt incredibly depressing and that made it hard to read. The dialogues made it feel like experiencing isolation and disconnection from other people; the characters talk to each other, but don't listen or care for anyone but themselves or t…

My favorite aspect of the book is the way in which it depicts “addiction” in its many forms such as being addicted to drugs, playing sports, consumer products or work. It makes you think hard about the elusive nature of happiness and fulfillment.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#580
post #130

Anathem by Neal Stephenson features a bifurcated world where a scholar-monk-class of mathematicians lives in walled-off areas that mingle with the rest of the world only on fixed dates. Some every year, some every ten years, and others only every 100 years. There is a lot more to it, but I don't want to give anything away.

Anathem is definitely my favorite Stephenson book. I've read all of his books except for his newest book, and I have yet to finish Seveneves - I didn't want it to end, so I put it down.
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