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Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

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Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#91

Post by shlom22 »

go13 wrote: post #68

I'm afraid of these socialist trends and statements. Hopefully, there will not be any new "revolution" where 'low-income' will vote for some populist who will make everyone "equal". And by "everyone" they normally mean middle/upper middle class because ultra-wealthy people operate in a bit different world than the rest of people. AND: Can't low earners take those high-earners who work remotely (programmers, for examp…

The West will go full communism, and it will make life better for all of us - no more rent, work or paying for groceries and everything will be taken care of so we can be creative in our time

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#92

Post by marcosdumay »

pdonis wrote: post #84
marcosdumay wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were plenty of violent revolutions that stopped early enough to make gains. (At around the French one, England had a few.) But any revolution that lasts enough to make into the popular definition of the word will cost more than it gains.

> At around the French one, England had a few. The USA had one too.

I don't think independence wars are on the same category. They are much more likely to be beneficial, and having a well defined enemy, much less likely to grow unbounded.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#93

Post by go13 »

shlom22 wrote: post #91
go13 wrote: post #68

I'm afraid of these socialist trends and statements. Hopefully, there will not be any new "revolution" where 'low-income' will vote for some populist who will make everyone "equal". And by "everyone" they normally mean middle/upper middle class because ultra-wealthy people operate in a bit different world than the rest of people. AND: Can't low earners take those high-earners who work remotely (programmers, for examp…

The West will go full communism, and it will make life better for all of us - no more rent, work or paying for groceries and everything will be taken care of so we can be creative in our time

well.. wealth owners probably would lobby that not to happen, but surprisingly to me that is happening already contrary to any common sense.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#94

Post by jlbnjmn »

sokoloff wrote: post #75
aabeshou wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think it's particularly inscrutable. Pay a wage which is high enough to attract the talent that you need and which still leaves the company with a profit at the end. If there's a wide range that satisfies both of these conditions (and in markets with minimum wages, is legal to pay), then choose to offer a pay rate that best balances getting/keeping the talent you want vs the profitability. If someone else can…

What if the other person costs less because they're being paid under the table? Unfortunately, that's been the case in a lot of lower income and manual labor jobs.

Construction and landscaping are notable examples. If the buyer only cares about cost, and the government adds 20-50% to the cost of wages, then the employer who bypasses the government thrives.

The double standard that enables many of our labor challenges is that people want a higher minimum wage, tend to oppose enforcement, and buy the cheapest option regardless of legality.

Laws that are helpful when fully enforced are destructive when partially enforced.

By the same token, if that next computer you buy is cheaper because it was built in a country with cheaper to implement labor laws than the ones you voted for in your country, how is that ethical?

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#95

Post by pdonis »

kerkeslager wrote: post #87
ashtonkem wrote: post #4

The suggestion that governments can close the remote working gap is not very well thought out. A large percentage of low income work is service work that requires physical presence. You can’t make the typical burger joint remote friendly without automating all the jobs away.

There are two ways you can close the gap between low-income, in-person work, and high-income, remote work: 1. The straw man you're suggesting: get rid of remote work. This is obviously not universally possible. 2. Pay in-person workers more. Because you know, if someone is essential enough to die for their work, maybe they are also essential enough to be included in the American dream of owning their own home and car…

> Pay in-person workers more.

Which in turn means whatever those workers are providing will cost more. In most of the jobs under discussion, labor costs are a large fraction of overall costs, so raising labor costs means making the overall good or service more expensive. And nobody wants to pay more--not even the workers themselves, who are also paying for similar services from other workers.

You left out the actual correct answer, which is a combination of:

3. Increase the productivity of individual workers. That means the workers are producing more value per unit of work.

4. Make the workers entrepreneurs. That means they are now owners of the capital constituted by their increased productivity and skills, so they capture more of the value they create.

In short: workers need to stop thinking of themselves as workers, and start thinking of themselves as owners of capital, since that's the better bargaining position to be in.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#96

Post by thayne »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #76
lmilcin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also say that even for people that can work remotely, low income may mean worse environment for work at home. Even with three kids I was able to quickly repurpose one of the rooms for home office and get everything needed to work comfortably from home. As my wife does not need to work we have less problem with kids staying at home. This is currently mostly discussion how to provide healthy environment for the…

> I would also say that even for people that can work remotely, low income may mean worse environment for work at home. Even with three kids I was able to quickly repurpose one of the rooms for home office and get everything needed to work comfortably from home. I would think that working from home all the time as a matter of course (as opposed to being forced to, like during a pandemic) would allow lower income peop…

That is a good point. There is a big difference between being forced to work from home, and choosing to work from home. In my case, I've actually been wanting to work from home for a while, and was already preparing for it in some ways, so being forced to work from home was not a hardship at all, but if you aren't prepared for it, I imagine it would be a lot harder.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#97

Post by shlom22 »

go13 wrote: post #93
shlom22 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The West will go full communism, and it will make life better for all of us - no more rent, work or paying for groceries and everything will be taken care of so we can be creative in our time

well.. wealth owners probably would lobby that not to happen, but surprisingly to me that is happening already contrary to any common sense.

They will be made to sign it eventually by the people. Then we can all be a whole world as a country, one vision and full equality of resources and thoughts, and it will be beautiful

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#98

Post by GordonS »

kerkeslager wrote: post #63
baron816 wrote: post #32

This is a pretty awful, clickbaity title. The implication is that remote work is bad for low-income earners, but that’s not the case. Inequality isn’t bad by itself. If some people are doing better without others being impacted, how could that be bad?

This is a pretty awful, irrelevant post. The current situation is bad for low income earners, because remote work is not available for most low income earners. Some people are doing better while others are being impacted. You're not wrong about a hypothetical situation in which low income earners aren't impacted, but your post reads a lot like using that hypothetical situation to draw attention away from problems whi…

> This is a pretty awful, irrelevant post. Remote work is bad for low income earners, because it's not available for most low income earners. Some people are doing better while others are being impacted.

I don't understand your agreement.

How exactly is remote work bad because it's not available to those working physical jobs?

I also don't understand what you mean about being "impacted" - how does people working remotely negatively affect those that don't? If remote working was to really gain traction, I can only see potential positives - I'd expect house price inflation to reduce in cities, and I'd expect overcrowded public transport in those cities to become much more comfortable.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#99

Post by GordonS »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #34
baron816 wrote: post #32

This is a pretty awful, clickbaity title. The implication is that remote work is bad for low-income earners, but that’s not the case. Inequality isn’t bad by itself. If some people are doing better without others being impacted, how could that be bad?

The problem is the assumption you are making is that others aren't being impacted.

OK, but how are they impacted?

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#100

Post by djsumdog »

nradov wrote: post #56
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

>> "Benefits not available to low-income workers" A more accurate statement would be "Benefits not available to low-income jobs " There are plenty of jobs that simply cannot be done remotely. The more physical the job, the less it can be done remotely. A meat packer at a meat packing plant cannot work from home. A construction worker cannot build houses from a desk. (I'd add nursing, but a large amount of those jobs…

Anyone who does classified work (including software developers) can't do it at home.

Did Snowden work fully remote as an NSA contractor with classified data?
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