Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#481

Post by karatestomp » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #421

xyzzyz wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably need to come up with a statement that’s true, but is made false by the act of getting B.

So, "I don't have B"? But the system is mutable, and we can easily see that the proposition is true, and then (possibly) false. Then you have to say "I will never have B". But that's not necessarily true! You would need either an oracle, some sort of iterative evaluation, or a perspective from which the entire interaction is a single static object, something like a tree of outcomes, which you allow to be used in the…

"You will not award me prize B for this response."

Good enough. All this sort of thing becomes a Genie problem if you think about it too much. We all get what the solution means.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#482

Post by ianai » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

“Desert Solitaire” by Ed Abbey and “Ishmael” by Daniel Quinn. Both are wildly different but explore the question of how different the other forms of life on this planet are from ours. “Are we smart enough to know how smart animals are?” By Franz de Waal et al explores this from a scientific perspective.

Abbeys about more, of course. He had that rare ability to turn his book into something that felt like a direct conversation with me, the reader. I read him in my 20s and his viewpoint definitely connects with someone wanting to examine and express his/herself first before society’s overwhelming influence. He discusses trying to free himself from the conceptual confines of the human individual and societal experience while isolated in a national park. Quinn uses a hypothetical conversation between a gorilla and a person to highlight the fundamental us versus them approach humans take with the rest of earth. Then Franz de Waal really drives home that animals are likely to be much more mentally capable than we give them credit. They’re good books if you want to know something more about the universe than what your human experience is.

Edit-corrected book title.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#483

Post by walleeee » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

CapmCrackaWaka wrote: post #208

I enjoyed Blindsight by Peter Watts. It explores several different interesting ideas. For instance, what is the point of empathy/friendship/love in a technologically advanced society? These were very useful things for our ancestors to help each other battle the harsh environment, but we have mastered our environment, so why waste brain power on empathy now? The Wikipedia summarizes the books discussion of conciousnes…

With respect, if your takeaway from reading Watts is that we've "mastered" the environment, I implore you to read the Rifters series and/or his blog. That's about as far from his view as it's possible to get.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#484

Post by ta1234567890 » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

carapace wrote: post #453

ta1234567890 wrote: post #411

Life changing more than mind bending: The Charisma Myth. Only reading it won't change anything, but start practicing the exercises and your whole life will change, and quickly. If you just want to get a taste, see below. Three quick tips to gain an instant charisma boost: 1. Lower the intonation of your voice at the end of your sentences. 2. Reduce how quickly and how often you nod. 3. Pause for two full seconds befo…

Ha! I saw that book at a book store, skimmed it, and laughed because the author (perhaps unknowingly) has actually written a manual of basic spirituality!

You are totally right. There are many different meditation exercises, ways to control anxiety and calm down, as well as mindfulness tips and tricks. In some ways it does point towards discovering your own path to happiness, by trying different things and seeing what works for you.

Given that humans are wired to be social and we pretty much all live in society, a lot of the things that afflict us have to do with the way we relate to others, which is exactly what the book is about :)

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#485

Post by bilater » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

Bandrsnatch wrote: post #394

Most likely no one is going to like this post. My father was a physicist and he had a large library of books. Growing up all of these books were over my head but I tried reading all of them. The more difficult the book the more determined I became to read and understand the content. I found this to be mind expanding. I began a life long quest to read the most difficult books and texts I could find. It sometimes takes…

I struggle with this since I also want to read something I enjoy and not make it a chore. I tried reading Moby Dick recently and was so disappointed. I wanted to read the original but the old English threw me off and I found it boring.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#486

Post by breakattn » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #272

jgwil2 wrote: post #162

For science fiction, Dune is a must, and Children of Time is probably the most mind-bending sci-fi I've read since. Both create imaginary worlds that are so detailed and plausible that they make you see our world in a new light.

But take Dune with a grain of salt; I read them, but the books after the first get a bit, I dunno, wishy-washy? Vague? Philosophical? I wanted to like it because the universe it describes is compelling, but the stories themselves lose a lot of luster. Interesting to see what they'll do in the upcoming movie / series, whichever it was though. It's great in terms of worldbuilding, and it's influenced a lot of other stu…

It is best just to read the first book. It is complete in itself.

And then there is Whipping Star, which is best skimmed through so that you can get to The Dosadi Experiment.

In fairness, Whipping Star is a fabulous take on what it would be like to attempt to communicate with an alien species that does not share our basic assumptions.

Dosadi Experiment is filled with fascinating ideas. Little gems like: “Does a population have informed consent when that population is not taught the inner workings of its monetary system, and then is drawn, all unknowing, into economic adventures?”

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#487

Post by pftburger » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #233

state_less wrote: post #225

You might like the Gateless Gate by Mumon. http://oaks.nvg.org/gate-struggles.html Hui-Neng's "Your Minds Move" The wind was flapping a temple flag, and two monks started an argument. One said the flag moved, the other said the wind moved; they argued back and forth but could not reach a conclusion. The Sixth Patriarch Hui-Neng said, "It is not the wind that moves, it is not the flag that moves; it is your minds that…

Ok, cute, but does it mean anything? Of course the wind moved the flag. Are they all ignorant of physics? No of course not. Its some metaphysical plug about relationships or something. One of those 'one hand clapping' things. I guess the point is to get you to stop overanalyzing. Which I'm doing. But no, I didn't get my mind blown by monks in semantic circles. I guess I'm not ready to be enlightened.

There is no wind there is no flag there are no monks only your mind. Its really not just semantics. Skip the Buddhism and go read Andy Clark's Surfing Uncertainty. Its humorously written, its current science and it'll blow your mind ;)

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#488

Post by farnsworth » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

bemmu wrote: post #100

"Permutation City" by Greg Egan is mind-bending in a way similar to The Matrix, except taken up a few notches. Explores the consequences of consciousness being just a pattern. Would it continue if the pattern is paused? Seems yes, since we survive being unconscious. So we move in space and time, but still consciousness feels continuous. What if you pause it, destroy it, recreate it somewhere else. Would it not contin…

It's either this or another Greg Egan book that has simulated people reprogramming their own consciousness. Changing their thought processes, personal motivations, and memories. I think he goes into some depth on how they can do that safely and what the implications are. One character programs himself to be obsessed with carpentry and spends lifetimes of subjective simulated time trying to craft the perfect table, but has a timer to turn off that motivation after some period of time. It's a fascinating idea that has stayed with me, and I think of it every time I see another depiction of a "brain in a computer". I'm disappointed that nobody else has tackled that idea, I think people are still getting used to the concept and it will be a few years before we see something like that in some more pop-culture sci-fi.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#489

Post by breakattn » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

jamesgadea122 wrote: post #372

Ecclesiastes. Short book of wisdom so jam-packed with truth I challenge anyone to read it and disagree with the message it shares. Always relevant but especially so in these challenging times.

And I saw that this, too, was meaningless.

Re: Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same as before?

#490

Post by carapace » Tue, May 12, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

qznc wrote: post #477

javajosh wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from playing twice, I can't think of a statement that could exclude you from choosing arbitrarily between A and B, since within the conceit of the problem there is no way to exclude B with a mere statement.

For this statement I will receive prize A or C.

You're not supposed to spoil it. The whole point of these puzzles is the joy and knowledge you gets from solving them on your own. Publishing the answers is selfish.