Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

theconversation.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 368 posts

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#21

Post by jimbokun »

hirundo wrote: post #3

Since there is no limit on the ceiling, but there is a limit to the floor, things that increase economic opportunity tend to decrease equality. Things that reduce economic opportunity tend to increase equality. See e.g. Steven Pinker: "...the most effective ways of reducing inequality are epidemics, massive wars, violent revolutions and state collapse." https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/twenty-questions-steven-p...

But we are in the midst of a pandemic, and income inequality seems to be increasing even faster.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#22

Post by Supermancho »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #20
Supermancho wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always argue caution about revolution to help the poor, as there are plenty of examples where revolution killed as many poor people as it did aristocrats. Std pareto curve. population of 100. 10 are aristocratic. 90 lower class. if you net equal losses, population 80 and you have increased equality. This is a simplification.

Right, but they didn't net equal losses. The vast majority of people killed in the French Revolution were from the Third Estate.

It doesnt have to be equal, just outside the existing curve. Again, conceptually, 1:9 from 100 is an improvement for some abstract measure of equality.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#23

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jimbokun wrote: post #21
hirundo wrote: post #3

Since there is no limit on the ceiling, but there is a limit to the floor, things that increase economic opportunity tend to decrease equality. Things that reduce economic opportunity tend to increase equality. See e.g. Steven Pinker: "...the most effective ways of reducing inequality are epidemics, massive wars, violent revolutions and state collapse." https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/twenty-questions-steven-p...

But we are in the midst of a pandemic, and income inequality seems to be increasing even faster.

I don't think that's true. The companies still operating are massively increasing wages, and the government's massively increased unemployment benefits. Both things are structured to be temporary in principle, but I expect that a significant residual of both will end up having to be made permanent.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#24

Post by BobbyJo »

Supermancho wrote: post #22
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but they didn't net equal losses. The vast majority of people killed in the French Revolution were from the Third Estate.

It doesnt have to be equal, just outside the existing curve. Again, conceptually, 1:9 from 100 is an improvement for some abstract measure of equality.

Given the fact that everyone ended up worse off after, this is kind of a pointless thing to attempt to point out.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#25

Post by ericwood »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #23
jimbokun wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we are in the midst of a pandemic, and income inequality seems to be increasing even faster.

I don't think that's true. The companies still operating are massively increasing wages, and the government's massively increased unemployment benefits. Both things are structured to be temporary in principle, but I expect that a significant residual of both will end up having to be made permanent.

I'm not sure where you're getting the increased wages bit from; a significant number of companies have been forced to cut wages or furlough their employees. Maybe some people are getting raises, but that is very very far from the norm.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#26

Post by BurningFrog »

ashtonkem wrote: post #9
hirundo wrote: post #3

Since there is no limit on the ceiling, but there is a limit to the floor, things that increase economic opportunity tend to decrease equality. Things that reduce economic opportunity tend to increase equality. See e.g. Steven Pinker: "...the most effective ways of reducing inequality are epidemics, massive wars, violent revolutions and state collapse." https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/twenty-questions-steven-p...

I always argue caution about revolution to help the poor, as there are plenty of examples where revolution killed as many poor people as it did aristocrats. Possibly the least flame war worthy example is the French Revolution. While the popular image is of the great terror killing off nobles, the reality is that most of the killings in Paris were either politicians or unfortunate merchants who refused to sell their g…

I'd say it's very hard to find any violent revolutions that improved a society. It's pretty much a long line of tragedies.

I count throwing out a foreign oppressor, like the American revolution or the Czech "velvet revolution" as a separate category. Those can be good.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#27

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ericwood wrote: post #25
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true. The companies still operating are massively increasing wages, and the government's massively increased unemployment benefits. Both things are structured to be temporary in principle, but I expect that a significant residual of both will end up having to be made permanent.

I'm not sure where you're getting the increased wages bit from; a significant number of companies have been forced to cut wages or furlough their employees. Maybe some people are getting raises, but that is very very far from the norm.

Grocery and supermarket chains all seem to be giving significant hazard pay. Furloughs and pay cuts are AFAIK heavily concentrated in the jobs that pay more than entry-level retail.

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#29

Post by mc32 »

hirundo wrote: post #3

Since there is no limit on the ceiling, but there is a limit to the floor, things that increase economic opportunity tend to decrease equality. Things that reduce economic opportunity tend to increase equality. See e.g. Steven Pinker: "...the most effective ways of reducing inequality are epidemics, massive wars, violent revolutions and state collapse." https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/twenty-questions-steven-p...

Question is are the poor getting relatively richer after the revolution or are the rich becoming part of the poor?

Re: Remote work can also be a source of socioeconomic inequality

#30

Post by pdubs1 »

I taught myself IT skills while sleeping in a tent.

If anyone wants it bad enough, they can also teach themselves IT skills.

No need to bring classism into it-- Once someone teaches their self IT skills (while living homelessly, as I did), apparently suddenly they're part of a separate class? How ironic.

Post reply on HN