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Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

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61–70 of 151 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#61
Noise: In an open-office there's always going to be someone on a business or team call. Always some colleague having smalltalk with another. Always a phone ringing, a person yawning, someone's text notification buzzing on a table, someone typing very loudly. Not all the time, but at least every minute or few minutes. Many can't concentrate, and the notion to just put on headphones for 8 hours is not healthy.

Psychology: Many of us hate the idea that someone behind us might be looking at us, our screen, our work. That there may be someone walking behind us that we know. That the sound of footsteps behind you might be your boss, or a colleague you'd like to chat with. It might be anyone, and there's some desire to want to find out to get closure.

Open offices are okay if they're part of a range of choices. I enjoy working in open offices sometimes. Sometimes it drives me nuts and there's no escape. That's not okay. There must be balance and there must be options.

For example, semi-open is a great start, because it means sound doesn't bounce around in one big space of 60 people, but rather only in the space of 10, and gets limited in sound/light traveling due to e.g. plants, windows etc.

If there are meeting rooms to meet or organise calls, that means the high-impact activities can be separated. If there are team-rooms, it means you can collaborate without impacting people who you don't work with 9/10 times, while you can still seek them out in their team room or meeting rooms, or an open-space setting you happen to be in for part of the week, if you do want cross-team collaboration.

The idea that teamwork flows best by putting everyone in one giant cage without caring for sensitivity to sound and human psychology, is a joke that in any other field would be seen as a bruteforce idiotic idea. Besides, the economics of non-open offices aren't wildly different with the right approach. Sound-proofing to turn a giant area into a set of large areas by installing some glass has barely any impact on cost, but is already a semi-open improvement. There's lots of good ideas on the spectrum of every desk in a cubicles vs all desks on a giant football field, it's not one or the other and you need to provide balance and options.

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#62
Pros: Situational awareness. It's cheaper.

Cons: Lack of focus. Dishonesty in how it's 'sold' to the workers; the cost is never openly acknowledged as the reason.

I don't hate it. But I do suspect that the net result makes it a false economy. While I do miss the cameraderie of being in an office while working from home I'm not missing the distractions of open-plan.

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#63

I'm not actually against open plan offices....at team level. I'm against open plan offices at large corp level. I have 300 people on my floor, the group closest to us is from business and spends 2/4 hours a day on the phone. It saddens me because the largest openly claimed benefit of Open Plan offices is "increase collaboration". What I literally see is people locking themselves with headphones and trying to hide in…

> I'd like team size cubicles.

Upvoting and quoting to emphasise this point. The alternative to open plan is not individual offices, it's team offices.

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#64

Pros: Situational awareness. It's cheaper. Cons: Lack of focus. Dishonesty in how it's 'sold' to the workers; the cost is never openly acknowledged as the reason. I don't hate it. But I do suspect that the net result makes it a false economy. While I do miss the cameraderie of being in an office while working from home I'm not missing the distractions of open-plan.

Now if you want me to really get my hackles up, ask me about hot-desking. There's a policy invented by someone who had never met any actual human beings! :)

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#65

I don't feel I have some kind of mental safety in open office. Bell labs are best kinds of office where you have offices with hub common area for your team where you can go out and discuss stuff.

My preference is to go to the pub to brainstorm over burgers and beer. I did work for a small biz where the owner would take us all out on Friday for that purpose. Most productive place I ever worked at. Eventually got bought out by a much bigger biz and it all went south.

Same! We had a small office round the corner from a pub, and we'd go there for lunch every friday. If we ever had to discuss that in front of clients, we referred to it as "meeting room P".

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#66
post #39

I'm not actually against open plan offices....at team level. I'm against open plan offices at large corp level. I have 300 people on my floor, the group closest to us is from business and spends 2/4 hours a day on the phone. It saddens me because the largest openly claimed benefit of Open Plan offices is "increase collaboration". What I literally see is people locking themselves with headphones and trying to hide in…

Does that not just create silos though. So many things require cross-team working. If each team has its own private space then information bottlenecks will occur

You have to compare the cost of potential information bottlenecks with the cost of no deeper work being done at all. To combat the bottlenecks, just include shared spaces - a kitchen with a water cooler, a foosball table, a customary time where people go to lunch as a group. Serendipity will happen there, and workstations can be reclaimed as places for concentration.

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#67
post #46

Headphones don’t make things quiet. You are just replacing noises. Think of a library. I have not even brought up the visual or olfactory distractions, either.

Does it need to be completely quiet? I find I work best with low-level relaxing ambient background noise. Find it much easier to work in e.g. a coffee shop than a library

A coffee shop is fine, working remotely as an individual, but I would argue an open office should not sound like a coffee shop, at least.

And if you need the ambient noise in a quiet environment, headphones with an ambient coffee shop track should work.

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#68

I'm not actually against open plan offices....at team level. I'm against open plan offices at large corp level. I have 300 people on my floor, the group closest to us is from business and spends 2/4 hours a day on the phone. It saddens me because the largest openly claimed benefit of Open Plan offices is "increase collaboration". What I literally see is people locking themselves with headphones and trying to hide in…

> I'd like team size cubicles. That would sound to me like a good compromise between collaboration, and deep work.

I agree, but isn't that just a room? When I was doing research at my university, all of the offices were laid out this way -- each group had one room where they all worked so they could discuss things (and the building is one of the older buildings in our 200-year-old university). Also (though I work from home) when we have face-to-face meetings at my employer's offices, the offices are similarly laid out (2-6 people from the same team in a room).

I knew that the open offices thing was the new fad in "efficiency improvements to the workplace which are actually just a way to save money", but is it really so common now that people feel the need to reinvent the room and call it a "team sized cubicle"?

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#69
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preference is to go to the pub to brainstorm over burgers and beer. I did work for a small biz where the owner would take us all out on Friday for that purpose. Most productive place I ever worked at. Eventually got bought out by a much bigger biz and it all went south.

Same! We had a small office round the corner from a pub, and we'd go there for lunch every friday. If we ever had to discuss that in front of clients, we referred to it as "meeting room P".

The COBRA meetings Her Majesty's cabinet sounds important, secretive, and just a bit ominous.

Its actually just meetings held in "Cabinet Office Briefing Room A".

Re: Ask HN: Why are you against open plan offices?

#70
Just like working from home is a mixed bag, so are the open offices. I think the main issue is that ultimately we are dealing with people. Some like things that other's don't.

And usually it's only those who don't like a thing that talk about it.

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