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The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

advances.sciencemag.org

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Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#121

Post by fsloth »

afandian wrote: post #59
skohan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you imagine that working in practice? I mean I'm not saying the current structure is perfect, but if everyone had equal claim to land it seems like land usage disputes would just end up being resolved through violence

This is the current model. In many places the violence may be out of living memory, but it's generally all very recent.

The problem in this case is not land ownership but exclusive political and / or economic system which rigs the game against a certain percentage of a population on all fronts.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#122

Post by chr1 »

ArnoVW wrote: post #113
chr1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to propose it as an alternative is not helpful in the current political context Suggesting that we should keep silent about a way of solving the problem, so that other people don't get "ideas", is even less helpful in any context, as you lose your credibility in the eyes of people whom you are trying to convince. > essentially be cleaning up the pollution of everyone else. Terraforming would require global agre…

It does not matter if it is toxic or not. It's a chemical byproduct that we don't want in the atmosphere. That means it's a pollutant. Sure. Terra forming works. Conceptually. If you can manage to build a rainforest in the desert, that will fix some co2. That is not the issue. The issue is: how to build a rainforest in the desert. Technically, and economically. Have you considered the amount of water you'd need? The…

You do not build a rainforest in a desert, you build a densely populated region with lots of agricultural land and some forests, so that people living there take care of enriching the soil and making sure that nothing collapses.

To do that we need to learn how to control the weather. There are multiple possible ways, like using mirrors in space, using large number of aerostats to change reflectivity, and to guide clouds to the place we need, solar updraft towers to inject dust from lower layers of the atmosphere into higher layers to form clouds, etc. Many of these are may not work, and many won't be cheap, but they will give us more control over the environment and will enable more people to live.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#123

Post by dang »

asdkjh345fd wrote: post #119
dang wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23083315 Would you please not create accounts to break HN's guidelines with? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Well, since I don't know what guideline I broke, and you refuse to tell me, I guess the obvious answer is no.

The guidelines your comment broke include:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say."

I'd never refuse to tell you, or anybody, anything you sincerely want to know about how to use HN as intended. You do have a long history of breaking the rules egregiously with many accounts, and it isn't the best use of resources to explain the same things over and over in such cases. If you'd like to change, though, that would be quite different and we'd be happy to help.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#124

Post by MauranKilom »

asdkjh345fd wrote: post #43
gambiting wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not going to happen by any measure. Deposits might become more and more expensive to tap into, but we're not just going to run out. We need to stop using them, not hope that we'll just stop once they are out - they simply won't be.

That is what everyone means when they say "run out of oil". Read it as "run out of oil worth extracting". We're obviously not going to spend 2 TJ of energy to extract oil that contains 1 TJ of energy.

This assumes we use the oil purely due to its energy content. Which is true in some sense or the other, but unless you can replace all uses of oil derivatives with either synthetic sources (that don't cost significantly more energy to create than the oil extraction would) or something different altogether (e.g. in the "producing electricity" use case).

And even then, who knows whether dumping spare electricity into oil wells instead of e.g. batteries or pumped storage hydroelectricity might remain profitable.

My point is, it's not necessarily that obvious, and we better not wait for people to stop running out of ideas to make a profit on fossil fuels.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#125

Post by asdkjh345fd »

dang wrote: post #123
asdkjh345fd wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, since I don't know what guideline I broke, and you refuse to tell me, I guess the obvious answer is no.

The guidelines your comment broke include: " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic get…

This is at least the 5th time I have asked you directly, and it is the first time you have replied. So yes, you would refuse to tell me. I do not see how you could interpret any of my posts as breaking the first two, and it is very obvious that you single me out because you want to control the narrative in regards to the last two. How is "we should kill everyone who doesn't believe in the climate hoax" not flamebait? How is it substantive, thoughtful or new? But suggesting that maybe murdering people because they aren't brainwashed is wrong, that's the real problem with modern discourse right?

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#126

Post by afandian »

fsloth wrote: post #120
afandian wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the model establishes a system where the people who are prepared to use the most violence end up with the land, and a couple of generations their descendants still have the land, then IMHO the model is still in play. You could also argue that as the ownership is codified in laws and the state monopoly on violence keeps the oppressed in check, that threat of violence continues.

"If the model establishes a system where the people who are prepared to use the most violence end up with the land, and a couple of generations their descendants still have the land, then IMHO the model is still in play." This is not about land ownership. Alone. You are talking about exclusive political and economic systems. In an exclusive system it's not just the ownership of land that is broken - you will find all…

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look that up.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#127

Post by vwcx »

dredmorbius wrote: post #117
vwcx wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Alaska, beavers are already getting there first and exasperating the climate effects upon the tundra. A fascinating read: https://alaskatrekker.com/2017/11/beavers-moving-northern-al...

s/exasperating/exacerbating/ ;-)

Thanks. I'm getting slopping here in the house with only a single conversation partner most days!

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#128

Post by anticensor »

asdkjh345fd wrote: post #43
gambiting wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not going to happen by any measure. Deposits might become more and more expensive to tap into, but we're not just going to run out. We need to stop using them, not hope that we'll just stop once they are out - they simply won't be.

That is what everyone means when they say "run out of oil". Read it as "run out of oil worth extracting". We're obviously not going to spend 2 TJ of energy to extract oil that contains 1 TJ of energy.

There are people willing to extract despite negative energy efficiency, especially in underdeveloped parts of the world. Societal development requires a particular amount of energy expenditure per capita to progress.

Re: The emergence of heat and humidity too severe for human tolerance

#129

Post by dweekly »

skohan wrote: post #2

I have to say when I took an extended layover in Doah it gave me a different sense of urgency about climate change. It was just oppressive to be outside, even during the night and they air-condition their open air markets. It got me thinking that there are a lot of places like this which are probably on the edge, and where a few degrees of warming will make them simply uninhabitable to humans. It would be a strange t…

I'm assuming by Doah you meant Doha, Qatar?
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