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Being Slow to Criticise

solipsys.co.uk

61–70 of 103 posts

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#61
post #42
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynism also has the advantage that no solution needs to be provided, so you are never wrong. > In toxic and mismanaged environments, being a cynic from the sidelines can be a better political strategy than being the positive person in the trenches trying to find solutions and compromises. Yes. In the best awesome places I have worked, there are great constructive discussions on how to solve problems. If anyone is an…

>If anyone is an environment that cynism is rewarded, run from there. There are better places to be. This is why I quit Twitter.

Quit the app? (Or quit the company as an employee?)

Curious about Mastodon, if that's possibly a different experience

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#62
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And research has shown that it's counterproductive. Culling bad ideas quickly makes for better results.

That's fascinating ... can you provide references for that research? We've found the careful controlling of criticism to be invaluable in getting ideas up front quickly so they can then be dissected, mutated, co-evolved, and their best points combined. Iterating quickly and ejecting bad ideas quickly has its place, yes, but not always. I'd be interested to see the underlying context for your statement here. Thanks.

This doesn't support the point but the conversation reminded me about something I read a while ago that is related. Maybe you will find it interesting.

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/minds-business/the...

The researchers found that a problem with brainstorming is the verbal component - due to social factors and limited oral and aural bandwidth, less ideas get shared, and people forget what they were about to say.

They decided 'brainwriting' is more effective, particularly 'asynchronous brainwriting' which alternates between writing your own ideas in a group, then reviewing others' ideas. This method would support want you want - getting all the ideas out quickly, because people are less likely to hold back, then iterating on them.

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#63
I find it very very true, however.

The time necessary to understand why the fence was put up, it is usually greater than the time necessary to push down the fence, test the system, and put back up the fence if necessary.

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#64
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same thing is going on with the commentary on economy currently. Whenever I browse around Reddit for example the comments that get upvoted are the cynical ones, "markets are irrational", "feds are pumping up the stocks" etc, but they do not put any real thought into what is happening with the markets and why.

It's simply easier to dismiss the potential legitimacy of actions which challenge one's existing notions than to reconsider those notions. What's interesting is that "markets are irrational" cannot be a failure of the market but a failure of the rational theory being used to interpret markets. That is, current economic theory is squalid by its attempts to explain market phenomenon; and that is to the extent the marke…

It's simultaneously not that complicated and more complicated.

The idea that "markets are rational" is an extension of the idea that "economic self-interest is rational." That's a political and moral position - essentially equivalent to "greed is good" - and not an empirical argument. You can certainly argue strongly against it, and many people have.

The second-order question is whether markets are genuinely rational in the sense of fulfilling the contract implied by ideas like rational price discovery, accurate predictions of future prospect ("pricing in", etc), and so on.

You can agree with the first position and still argue strongly against the second.

For markets to be "rational" in the sense that's usually meant, both positions have to be true. IMO this is simply nonsense. There's no empirical evidence that markets behave any more rationally or are any better at predicting the future than a herd of animals or a school of fish is, and plenty of evidence - not least regular crashes - that markets are actually very bad at fortune-telling.

The third order question is whether markets are "rational" in the sense that they create a political and economic reality distortion field which benefits their own interests at the expense of the wider economy. This is another political position, but it implies agency - almost a form of sentience - which predicts national and international policy because it influences it - rather than being influenced by it.

IMO this third position is closest to truth. Markets are politics by other means, and the successes come from having access to political and economic leverage that other classes don't have. The idea that markets are "wise" or even good at price discovery is questionable at best. But market morality is clearly a very influential thing, and it's easier to look like a winner when you have your fingers on the scales.

I think the current market rally is an example of this effect. "Markets" are hoping they have enough influence with the Fed and Trump's government to keep a privileged position above the carnage that's going to spread through the rest of the economy. And this is what has really been "priced in."

We'll see if that's what happens.

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#65

Empathy and patience are underrated qualities in developers. The empathy to not immediately blame the developers and the patience to find the actual reason behind the problem. Blaming developers reminds me of the Design of Everyday Things where Norman discusses human error. He makes the point that human error should be an extraordinarily rare cause of an incident. Instead one can always go further and find the root o…

> "find the root of the human error"

And sometimes there're many roots, like a chain with many weak links

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#66
post #63

I find it very very true, however. The time necessary to understand why the fence was put up, it is usually greater than the time necessary to push down the fence, test the system, and put back up the fence if necessary.

Except that you don't always know all the ways the system needs to be tested. I've come across code that was broken, seriously broken, multiple thousands of pounds broken, because someone replaced apparently pointless code with something simpler, tested every case they thought of, and deployed it.

Are your tests really complete? Have you tested everything?

Perhaps we simply work in different fields, and there are things that matter to me that you would shrug off and not care about.

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#67

What the author is really railing against is thoughtless critiques. Declaring software garbage is a usually useless contribution because it only identifies that software can be improved, which is almost always true. However, it fails to provide any concrete advise for improvement that could be debated. There's the saying "it's not science if people can't disagree with you." Seeing how engineering involves the applica…

I think what the author is railing against is the tendency to criticize something before becoming deeply familiar with the problem

There's a tendency I've observed nearly everywhere I've worked where a developer wants to totally rewrite some piece of software because "it is garbage." In actuality, his motivations tend to be a combination of "other peoples' code is hard to read and this is not how I would have done it" and not having the depth of familiarity with a problem that you attain doing implementation work.

In any cases, asking why something is a particular way is a good thing to do.

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#68
post #29

On a related note, suppose that you already spent too much time to try to really understand the code and asked the developers for the motivations for their strange desing decisions. How do you present criticism in a constructive way then?

By showing you understand the constraints the developers were under, and acknowledging their frame of mind. Criticism is fine, giving it without understanding the context is not. If you are able to summarize the problem in such a way that the developers say 'That is right', and they are not correcting you further on your understanding of the problem, then any criticism from your side is not as much of an attack. By f…

Thanks for good advice

> By showing you understand the constraints the developers were under

And when you take this approach, maybe all of you together will discover that some of those constraints are the things you'd like to change

Re: Being Slow to Criticise

#70

People who are slow to criticize seem wise to me. Maybe they've seen similar situations before, they might have ideas about an optimal outcome.

Related: I think often when sbd has a seemingly silly idea, there's a good idea just nearby, when tweaking the initial idea a little bit

Then good to keep {those who suggested the idea) happy so they'll help out with tweaking and improving the idea

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