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Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

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Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#721

Post by kart23 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #636
lotsofpulp wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guillotines might have worked well in the past, but with modern weapons and technology, you can use a much smaller portion of the population to suppress a much larger portion of the population. You can pay 10% of the population well enough that they support the top 0.01%, and the top 10% can pay the next 20% to 30% well enough or provide a sufficient probability to move up (or illusion) that they are incentivized to…

There is a much simpler alternative. The general strike.

Not when half the country is living paycheck to paycheck.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#722

Post by golergka »

jdavis703 wrote: post #568
eanzenberg wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strip the wealthy if their wealth and most will probably become wealthy again. If you don’t call it intelligence what would you call it.

American wealth is closely tied to how wealthy a given persons parents were [0]. Given this, I’m skeptical that the wealthy would become wealthy again. The counterpoint is the richest Southern families quickly recovered their positions in the years after the Civil War [1]... but that relied heavily on racist policies, and of course these families still owned capital like land. 0: http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/asse…

But intelligence is directly connected to it, too. And I'm not even speaking about generic aspect: it's the cultural thing of how important education is perceived to be. In Russia, two generations after the revolution you could still guess where did the family originally come from originally by this cultural divide alone.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#723

Post by taneq »

partiallypro wrote: post #615
JKCalhoun wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there is a decade of guillotines in the future that they are either not seeing or are looking way past. But then I've always been cynical about the growing divide between the uber-wealthy and the other 99% of this country.

I want to know why this "guillotine" thing has become so big recently? It has largely been Bernie/DSA people. I find it a bit disturbing. I've seen even very innocent things like simply being a landlord as "guillotine" worthy on social media. This is pre-COVID. While most landlords are actually middle class people trying to make a side income. I don't think people actually know what they are asking for, they want rev…

It seems popular among certain sociopolitical groups to see other people getting nice things and feel entitled to getting those same nice things yourself, without regard for any effort expended or risks taken by the first group. It's pure "you have, I see, I want, I should be able to take".

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#724

Post by ajuc »

sidlls wrote: post #295
lotsofpulp wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guillotines might have worked well in the past, but with modern weapons and technology, you can use a much smaller portion of the population to suppress a much larger portion of the population. You can pay 10% of the population well enough that they support the top 0.01%, and the top 10% can pay the next 20% to 30% well enough or provide a sufficient probability to move up (or illusion) that they are incentivized to…

That cuts both ways, so to speak. Drones and even more advanced technology can replace guillotines as easily as it can be used to have a smaller police force of the kind you mention. I think some people don't quite understand what people are capable of when they are truly desperate. Right now, in most of the western world, people aren't at that point. But when they get there, billionaires' ability to hide on islands…

System controls internet, phone network, electricity, food and oil delivery.

IF you want to stop a revolution in 21st century just shutdown everything and blockade roads. How long till people start dying? A week?

What are the rebels gonna do? Assauls tanks and machine guns? Or starve/freeze/cook to death without electricity/oil/food?

The American delusion of aremd citizens defending constitution is just that - a delusion. In real life army mops the floor with small minority of suicidal rebels, and the rest begrudgingly return to their usual jobs because it's much better than starving and fearing for life every day.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#725

Post by kart23 »

kube-system wrote: post #537
peteretep wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe what you’re missing here is a “Chapter 11 Bankruptcy”, as opposed to a “Chapter 7 Bankruptcy”. Chapter 11 means the business keeps running, but the owners lose their money, Chapter 7 is what most of the world considers to be a bankruptcy / going bust / liquidation. Uncle Sam probably doesn’t care if Delta does a Chapter 11, as long as the planes keep flying.

I guarantee that Uncle Sam doesn't care if Delta files chapter 11. https://money.cnn.com/2005/09/14/news/fortune500/delta/

holy shit. And there was a guy here who bought delta bonds, saying he would make an easy 7% by the end of the year.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#726

Post by mcv »

partiallypro wrote: post #615
JKCalhoun wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there is a decade of guillotines in the future that they are either not seeing or are looking way past. But then I've always been cynical about the growing divide between the uber-wealthy and the other 99% of this country.

I want to know why this "guillotine" thing has become so big recently? It has largely been Bernie/DSA people. I find it a bit disturbing. I've seen even very innocent things like simply being a landlord as "guillotine" worthy on social media. This is pre-COVID. While most landlords are actually middle class people trying to make a side income. I don't think people actually know what they are asking for, they want rev…

I've always assumed it's meant firmly tongue-in-cheek, but it's very morbid humour. But it's also a reminder of how powerless people in the past still managed to take action to rectify injustices, even if it happened in an overly brutal manner. In free, democratic societies, people should have more power to create the change society needs, but it doesn't seem to be working.

But it's also a reminder that if the powerful people in society offer too much resistance to the change the people need, at some point the only way to get that change is by extreme overreaction.

Personally I'd rather see the revolution happening by the soap box or the ballot box rather than the ammo box, but when media and voting systems get gamed and corrupted while people's rights and needs keep getting trampled upon, at some point a more violent solution may become unavoidable. But that's going to be very hard to steer and have many harmful side effects.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#727

Post by durnygbur »

WalterBright wrote: post #515
amiga_500 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality is huge, just because you can buy 0.0000001% of IBM doesn't make that fair/democratic.

If you buy stocks, you'll have the same proportionate gains/losses as everyone else who buys the same stocks. Sounds fair to me.

I'm pretty sure the top executives and management don't pay 30% dividend tax, if they pay any at all.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#728

Post by taneq »

tinco wrote: post #451
Consultant32452 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course luck plays a role in everything. It's merely luck that I've never been run over by a bus, or any number of other problems. But can you help me understand how a lot of effort and a sense of opportunity is not available to the common person?

It's the classic Trump small loan of a million dollars scenario. Sure not many are as lucky as Trump was. But even t hese examples of blue collar success have a bunch of luck in them. Not everyone can start a machine shop with their dad, or own or even operate a taco restaurant. You need to be at the right place, the right moment, have the right amount of money and or the right equipment, interests and skills. And on…

> You need to be at the right place, the right moment, have the right amount of money and or the right equipment, interests and skills. And only then your sense of opportunity and effort will take you places.

If you flip that around, you get "Anyone, anywhere, any time, with any amount of money and any (or no) equipment, interests or skills should be able to be start and own a successful business." Does that really sound like a reasonable expectation?

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#729

Post by ajuc »

alasdair_ wrote: post #692
magicsmoke wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual assassinations don't change the system. How many rich people do you think have to be assassinated for the economic system that allows accumulated wealth inequality of this scale to change? Would killing Bill Gates or Warren Buffet somehow magically reconfigure how American society works? It's much harder to kill a system than it is to kill individual people. Like you hinted at, the American military has ha…

> Individual assassinations don't change the system. Franz Ferdinand’s assassination changed a whole lot of systems.

WW1 was going to happen anyway, it was just the first good excuse.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#730

Post by mcv »

eanzenberg wrote: post #456
Glyptodon wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people always say "Why should I pay more in taxes? It's not fair, they should be flat and the same for everybody!" and I'm always like "Do you have just as much to lose in a French Revolution scenario? You should be happy to pay more if it leads to more social stability."

The top 1% pay something like half our taxes. What share do you think is fairer?

Apparently they own more than half the wealth, so fairer would mean they need to pay more.
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