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My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

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Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#101

Post by bitL »

cmarschner wrote: post #86
bitL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only open source coding resume, but also Leetcode-hard proficiency for entry-level jobs (not joking; ofc this is waived if you know the right people). Welcome to the insanity of contemporary tech industry! BTW, almost nobody clicks on links in your CV.

I have clicked on github links in resumes many times, and I have yet to get impressed. Most of the time you‘d find empty repositories, some forks that were never touched, and other garbage, and hardly any activity. If you can‘t clean up your profile when submitting an application, just remove that link.

Stuff you can find in my resume are links like my own self-driving car, humanoid robot, music studio, links to software that was #1 on HN etc. Yet still almost nobody clicks on them :D Recruiters/HR/interviewers seem to be quite lazy and what is on the paper must be sufficient to convince them to give you a shot or make you likable enough.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#102

Post by bigiain »

wolco wrote: post #81
karatestomp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? Who knows? Every company wants something different and most of them seem reluctant to provide that information up front, inexplicably. Maybe lead with “we expect to go over some of your code with you” or “we’ll be doing 2 hours of whiteboarding, but nothing above leetcode easy” or whatever. Every interview (outside certain major companies…

I think you hit the nail on the head. The various random things that can be thrown at you is incredible. Add that to different personality requirements. Most want extroverts during the interview process but introverted after hired.

> The various random things that can be thrown at you is incredible.

From another perspective, that's a pretty apt description of a whole class of programming jobs. Maybe it's an accidental/unintended test for a thing that really matters...

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#103

Post by nilkn »

Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

As a hiring manager it’s just an additional piece of information that can add to or enhance the resume in some cases. It’s not something that candidates should stress about or worry about in my opinion, and it’s hardly required. Most candidates have nothing of interest or true significance.

But in some cases we’ve certainly become more interested in a candidate because we were impressed with something on their GitHub profile.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#104

Post by silveroriole »

t_1589165433 wrote: post #19

How on earth do people have these experiences? I have to submit multiple hundreds of applications to get one interview. Throwaway because it could turn into multiple thousands if that fact is linked to my identity.

Is America completely saturated with developers or something? If so how are their salaries still so high? In the UK I can safely say I’ve gotten an interview for every job I’ve applied for. I’m not an amazing programmer, it’s just that the general quality of applicants is very low (I’ve been on the recruiting side before). Yet I see this “I’ve sent hundreds of resumes” problem on HN frequently.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#105

Post by whiskyant »

t_1589165433 wrote: post #19

How on earth do people have these experiences? I have to submit multiple hundreds of applications to get one interview. Throwaway because it could turn into multiple thousands if that fact is linked to my identity.

It's a lot harder for junior engineers since the market is saturated at entry level. I'm a senior engineer, and I feel I get a 80%+ response rate.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#106

Post by renewiltord »

smt88 wrote: post #98
MattGaiser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like to spend time with in their down time. I have never hired anyone, but anecdotally from a team lead dev who has hired a couple dozen people, that is the exact kind of thing they want to avoid. If someone was a "star" working 90 hours a week in the past but now wants to work 40, they stop being the kind of "star" some companies want.

That team lead (and companies with similar thinking) need to learn that obsessive/workaholic devs are not more productive. If coding consumes your paid and free time, you're generally not cranking out new CRUD features requested by the marketing team. You're doing pet projects, learning new languages, or getting lost in bikeshedding, like writing a new JS framework because you think the current list sucks. That means…

I'm somewhat amused at this rejuvenation of the age-old belief that folks who have this as a hobby are somehow maladjusted and burning out.

Fascinating. I think it was this early belief in the 90s and then the dotcom boom had the superstars and then the next wave had the next superstars and it shifted. Now it's shifted back. Wonder what shifted it.

Well, to my people out there, do not fret: there are still places to work where you work with other obsessives, there are still people who look for that in each other, and after 20 years of messing with computers I can tell you it is still joyful. You can do what you love and make a lot of money doing it. And in these places no one will judge you for loving the thing you work on so much you do it for fun as well.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#107

Post by lihaciudaniel »

ivalm wrote: post #99

I am curious what counts for “mid career”, he started coding ~6 years ago. Presumably he is in his 20s. Here him talking about leaving philosophy: https://www.philosophicalhacker.com/2014/04/22/why-im-glad-m... Edit: LinkedIn ~agrees with this estimate

>For the past 5 years, I hoped I was going to be a philosophy professor

Assuming he goes to university or somewhere. Because most people find it boring he should have chosen history, latin, or simply other humanities subjects. How does one even jump from tech to humanities anyways???

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#108

Post by ramraj07 »

smt88 wrote: post #98
MattGaiser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like to spend time with in their down time. I have never hired anyone, but anecdotally from a team lead dev who has hired a couple dozen people, that is the exact kind of thing they want to avoid. If someone was a "star" working 90 hours a week in the past but now wants to work 40, they stop being the kind of "star" some companies want.

That team lead (and companies with similar thinking) need to learn that obsessive/workaholic devs are not more productive. If coding consumes your paid and free time, you're generally not cranking out new CRUD features requested by the marketing team. You're doing pet projects, learning new languages, or getting lost in bikeshedding, like writing a new JS framework because you think the current list sucks. That means…

Generalizations galore on both sides? There are probably as many 40hr Devs that just want to phone it in as there are effective ones. It's possible youve learned to weed out the former but they do exist. Similarly I'm probably one of those Workaholics, but I make an active effort not to waste time. However I do work with good effective 40hr devs and I try to make sure that we are all on the same velocity. The remaining time I spend on pet projects for sure, but I do hope they are not a waste of time for someone, be it my personal growth or my company.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#109

Post by georgeburdell »

nnoitra wrote: post #93
georgeburdell wrote: post #29

I look at that resume and I wonder if it didn't hurt more than it helped; it's form over function, and a bit corny. The fact that he got multiple offers in two months shows how strong the software job market is. I'm several years younger, but a staff-level hardware engineer at a second tier company (top tier being FAANG). I've had an incredibly difficult time jumping companies --- 2 years and counting. Despite being…

Could it be that you are overqualified? How was your PhD experience, do you think it has helped your career considering the opportunity cost?

Not over-qualified (see other posts). At this point in my career, a PhD has been a net financial loss even though I managed to graduate in four years. The jobs are more interesting though. I wouldn't recommend it, honestly.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#110

Post by watwut »

lihaciudaniel wrote: post #107
ivalm wrote: post #99

I am curious what counts for “mid career”, he started coding ~6 years ago. Presumably he is in his 20s. Here him talking about leaving philosophy: https://www.philosophicalhacker.com/2014/04/22/why-im-glad-m... Edit: LinkedIn ~agrees with this estimate

>For the past 5 years, I hoped I was going to be a philosophy professor Assuming he goes to university or somewhere. Because most people find it boring he should have chosen history, latin, or simply other humanities subjects. How does one even jump from tech to humanities anyways???

> How does one even jump from tech to humanities anyways???

Why would that be impossible or shocking? Most people are able to learn multiple different things and have interest in multiple different things.

Universities typically allow you to take courses from different topics too.

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