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My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

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Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#41

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

aswanson wrote: post #31
troughway wrote: post #20

Should "mid-career" software developers still be focused on low-balling themselves with having to do "career growth" things like this fellow, or should they plan their exit strategy to get out of that career trajectory entirely? Assuming mid-career is actually mid-career and not the ageist SV type of mid-career.

The latter. Build up cash and invest in a career path that values experience.

Depends. In Europe, dev salaries and taxes don't allow you to build enough cash for an exit path unless you plan on staying childless.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#42

Post by MattGaiser »

pragmatic wrote: post #40
aswanson wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter. Build up cash and invest in a career path that values experience.

And what would that be exactly? What's safe from being Ubered out of existence?

> What's safe from being Ubered out of existence?

Uberizing an industry.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#43

Post by marcinzm »

georgeburdell wrote: post #29

I look at that resume and I wonder if it didn't hurt more than it helped; it's form over function, and a bit corny. The fact that he got multiple offers in two months shows how strong the software job market is. I'm several years younger, but a staff-level hardware engineer at a second tier company (top tier being FAANG). I've had an incredibly difficult time jumping companies --- 2 years and counting. Despite being…

It sounds like something about how you come off in interviews throws off red flags to the person interviewing you. Maybe you're too arrogant, not arrogant enough, not driven enough, etc. Most top tier companies will give you a list of personality qualities they are looking for that they expect you to show in the initial interview. I'd recommend doing a mock interview with someone you trust who has hired people to see what they can discern.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#44

Post by eel »

t_1589165433 wrote: post #28
marcinzm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general don't blindly apply unless you have no choice. Use your network, have people refer you, respond to recruiters, etc. Someone you know may know someone who can refer you and so on. That said, going through recruiters alone should give you decently high interview rates. Assuming you have some experience and so on. If it's not then your resume needs work. For whatever reason, hiring manager look at it and don'…

I'd love to carefully tailor applications to jobs I'm suited for, get references through people, etc. Unfortunately, when I've tried this, I've been completely ignored or one-liner email rejected if I'm lucky, and it's a lot of effort - so my only option is huge volume, which means I can't carefully craft anything.

If I may offer a suggestion, what works for me is that at the start of a job search, I first make a very large resume, with several excess bullet points and detailed lists of technologies. I am the only one that sees this version of my resume. Then, for every job I apply for, I cut out all of the uninteresting bullet points and reduce irrelevant terms for that job description until my resume is about a page long. For instance, if I'm applying for a Node.js role, I minimize my past Java and .NET experience (I may mention each just once to show a little bit of breadth) so that my JavaScript experience shows through more. Likewise, if I apply to a Java role, I minimize my JavaScript experience.

After I apply to a few companies, I can easily reuse resumes with little to no modifications. The goal is to hit as many job requirements in the job description as I have experience for without overwhelming the recruiters and hiring manager with irrelevant information.

I only submit cover letters if they are required, or if I have a unique connection that I can bring up (e.g., having met the hiring manager at a recent meetup).

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#45

Post by zebnyc »

non-entity wrote: post #26
marcinzm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general don't blindly apply unless you have no choice. Use your network, have people refer you, respond to recruiters, etc. Someone you know may know someone who can refer you and so on. That said, going through recruiters alone should give you decently high interview rates. Assuming you have some experience and so on. If it's not then your resume needs work. For whatever reason, hiring manager look at it and don'…

I've never get good recruiters. It's always some underpaid external recruiter trying to pass anyone off for some low paying, and probably mibd-killing position. The kind the heavily editorilzaze you resume unsolicited so that it matches the position description exactly and the description they send you have glaring typos and theres a small percentage its even relevant to your experience. Everytime I've tried to follo…

Agreed. This is part of the reason why I refuse to work with third party recruiters any longer.

A few more are: a) They cold call you in a way which makes it obvious they don't respect your schedule. b) They just want to shoe horn you into a role, get the commission and keep moving. c) Some third party recruiters get offended when I tell them that I am also trying to get interviews on my own without them or through other third party recruiters. d) I have a sneaking suspicion that third party recruiters are paid if the candidate stays for 3 months. So if things were not to go perfect in the first few months then the company might be more inclined to fire you to save the commission.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#46

Post by twblalock »

Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

In my experience that expectation is not normal, except at startups -- and a lot of startups don't care either.

Most of the people I've interviewed and seen hired had not made any open-source contributions, and if they had side projects they didn't mention them.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#47

Post by tylerrobinson »

t_1589165433 wrote: post #28
marcinzm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general don't blindly apply unless you have no choice. Use your network, have people refer you, respond to recruiters, etc. Someone you know may know someone who can refer you and so on. That said, going through recruiters alone should give you decently high interview rates. Assuming you have some experience and so on. If it's not then your resume needs work. For whatever reason, hiring manager look at it and don'…

I'd love to carefully tailor applications to jobs I'm suited for, get references through people, etc. Unfortunately, when I've tried this, I've been completely ignored or one-liner email rejected if I'm lucky, and it's a lot of effort - so my only option is huge volume, which means I can't carefully craft anything.

Disclaimer that I’m a PM and your experience surely may vary. But I would suggest reallocating some of your time to move deliberately instead of scattershot and tailor your resume and/or cover letters. You may also want to consider having a trusted friend or a professional review your resume to see if there may be problems you’re not aware of.

Edit: I meant to add that I am also happy to review your resume and provide feedback, too. Contact in profile.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#48

Post by organicfigs »

Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

You definitely don't need an "open source coding resume" at mid-career since you don't need it in an early career job hunt. You just need to LeetCode sigh

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#49

Post by non-entity »

georgeburdell wrote: post #37
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish I knew what the successful candidates had that I didn't It's not what they had, it's what they didn't... unless you're going heavy into research, I would recommend NOT getting the PhD until you hit 45+.

Hardware development jobs are PhD-only in my field (some older people get grandfathered in with an MS, but this is rare). These are not research-y jobs

Out of curiosity, what field is that?

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#50

Post by scarface74 »

eel wrote: post #27
lynchdt wrote: post #10

Some perhaps unsolicited advice from a hiring manager in a company very similar to the great ones in which this writer was unsuccessful. - Rare programmers won’t identify themselves as such. - Most great companies hire for humility as a trait.

While I agree with your advice in the general case, I also find the author's data point interesting and compelling. Receiving 2 offers from 7 interviews with only 16 applications is a good rate in software engineering as far as I am aware. It's also worth pointing out that the cover letter mentioning "rare programmer" ultimately led to an interview and an offer according to the author.

It depends. For the types of companies he was applying to - yes.

For your standard experienced “enterprise dev” in most major US cities outside of the west coast and NYC, pre-Covid the demand was so high and so few experience developers come on the market, you could usually find a job in less than a month depending on if you were looking for the “right job” or the “right now” job. That’s been my experience since 2000 with the exception of the years between 2008-2010.

Of course that’s if you do enough resume driven development and have a strong network of former coworkers and local recruiters.

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