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Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

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Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#491

Post by Consultant32452 »

peterangular wrote: post #485
Consultant32452 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the common person it's a lottery just to be allowed to work at Taco Bell and do what the Taco Bell handbook tells you? And then, once you become a manager to save your pennies until you have a down payment on your own store? Gimme a break man.

How many people do you think working the counter FT at Taco Smell can save enough money to afford their own franchise location? > The cost of opening a new Taco Bell restaurant is between $1.2 million and $2.6 million. Taco Bell also charges a $45,000 franchise fee, an ongoing royalty fee equal to 5.5% of gross sales, and a marketing fee equal to 4.25% of gross sales. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-it-costs-to-…

I expect about 0% of people to go from the bottom level position at Taco Bell directly to owning one. But I'm sure you're smart enough to have known that. So why did you feel it would be useful to frame the scenario in such a disingenuous way?

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#492

Post by anonytrary »

WalterBright wrote: post #351
magicsmoke wrote: post #9

> And as has often been the case in recent years, investors find themselves faced with few attractive alternatives if they opt out of betting on stocks. The problem is so familiar it has its own acronym: TINA, or There Is No Alternative to stocks. Cash: Gets eaten away by inflation. Although the CPI doesn't indicate high inflation it only measures consumer goods. Inflation is there in the price of investments. If you…

> the richest 10% of America owns 86% of its stocks I don't buy that, as a much larger percentage of stock ownership is pension plans, where ordinary people indirectly own stock.

I would bet that the majority of Americans do not even have 401k plans or pension plans, and those that do have very little money allocated in them.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#493

Post by jeromegv »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #482
Glyptodon wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people always say "Why should I pay more in taxes? It's not fair, they should be flat and the same for everybody!" and I'm always like "Do you have just as much to lose in a French Revolution scenario? You should be happy to pay more if it leads to more social stability."

How is that any different from the proposition offered by your local Mafia muscle?

Thanks Bob. Very helpful comment. If people live a fulfilling life and are taking care by the state when they hit a bad time or go through health problems, they are less likely to want to overthrow the state. This social net requires taxes. It’s a social net, not a racket.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#494

Post by scarmig »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #349
kazen44 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what seems very weird to me (as a non US citizen), is that most working class people in the US seem convinced the 'american dream' is synonymous with being a millionare/billionare and introducing legalization to level the playing field of the latter will hurt their own changes at becoming part of the former. It might also be the reason social democratic/socialistic parties never got a foothold in the US post world wa…

It's also interesting how the scale has slid up so much that many people now believe the "American Dream" is to become a millionaire/billionaire. When originally it was merely the idea that if you do the right thing your children will be better off than you were. It wasn't until the gold rush in the 1850s that the American Dream, for some, became this idea of get rich quick scheming. I can't speak to everyone, but my…

Thankfully pretty much everybody still has the ability to buy into a safe neighborhood with a good school district in the Bay Area.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#495

Post by WalterBright »

bluquark wrote: post #469
WalterBright wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying stocks has never been more democratic. Anyone with $100 can buy stocks. No brokerage fees, and fractional shares are now common. We also just passed what in hindsight will likely be seen as a historic buying opportunity.

> We also just passed what in hindsight will likely be seen as a historic buying opportunity. Almost as likely to be a historic selling opportunity. The 35%-ish bottom isn't close to the bottom of the really huge recessions (and every non-stock-price signal is saying "really huge recession"). And the volatility we just saw resembles the movements from early 2008 to summer 2008. Of course, the market can stay up in de…

Historically, the optimistic people do better in the market than the doomsayers.

Besides, it doesn't make much sense to claim that it's unfair people are making money in the market, while saying it's too risky to invest in it.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#496

Post by WalterBright »

maest wrote: post #439
WalterBright wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nepotism 85% of American millionaires are self-made. "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley

Is there any data on where wealth increase has come from for those people? e.g. started own business, vs savings + stock market, vs investing in real estate.

I recommend getting the book, it's cheap and a good read. It also lays out a path for those that want to accumulate wealth themselves.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#497

Post by [deleted] »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #349
kazen44 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what seems very weird to me (as a non US citizen), is that most working class people in the US seem convinced the 'american dream' is synonymous with being a millionare/billionare and introducing legalization to level the playing field of the latter will hurt their own changes at becoming part of the former. It might also be the reason social democratic/socialistic parties never got a foothold in the US post world wa…

It's also interesting how the scale has slid up so much that many people now believe the "American Dream" is to become a millionaire/billionaire. When originally it was merely the idea that if you do the right thing your children will be better off than you were. It wasn't until the gold rush in the 1850s that the American Dream, for some, became this idea of get rich quick scheming. I can't speak to everyone, but my…

[deleted]

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#498

Post by zelias »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #482
Glyptodon wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people always say "Why should I pay more in taxes? It's not fair, they should be flat and the same for everybody!" and I'm always like "Do you have just as much to lose in a French Revolution scenario? You should be happy to pay more if it leads to more social stability."

How is that any different from the proposition offered by your local Mafia muscle?

All governments are Mafias to some extent. That's what it means to have police. The difference is that we expect the government to leverage its Mafia-like power in a manner that best suits its citizens.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#499

Post by aianus »

ForHackernews wrote: post #307
shawnz wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think a typical middle class American would rather be living in the world as it was 40 years ago though? Or today's world, full of technology and infrastructure that was funded by the rich?

Is this even a question? 40 years ago housing, healthcare and education were vastly more accessible than they are today. Middle class jobs paid wages that could produce a middle class standard of living. The only thing you'd miss out on would be a bunch of hollow digital toys. Would I trade my iphone to be able to own a house and have my children go to college? Of course! Who wouldn't!? In 1985, in-state tuition and…

> 40 years ago housing, healthcare and education were vastly more accessible than they are today

More people go to college now than 40 years ago; the price is high because of the easy credit that makes it more accessible now, not less.

As for healthcare, I guess you had a higher chance of being able to see a doctor back then, but they wouldn't be able to treat your illness as effectively as today so it's a tossup depending on what ails you.

Housing is totally fucked now, I give you that.

Re: Why is the stock market rallying when the economy is so bad?

#500

Post by WalterBright »

peterangular wrote: post #477
WalterBright wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nepotism 85% of American millionaires are self-made. "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley

"The Millionaire Next Door" was published in 1996 when the economy was booming, the dot-com bubble had yet to burst, and the employment market meant anyone slightly skilled could get a FT+benefits career. In the 24 years since that book's publishing I absolutely argue that ladder has become more difficult to climb. But hey - what do I know? I'm just a lazy millennial who's now living through his second major recessio…

The market has done even better in the last 10 years than in the 90's.

Besides, I heard the same lament in the 70s, 80s, 90's, 00's, and 10's.

> I don't doubt that's how they feel about themselves and self report!!!

Always better to guess than pick up the book and read it!

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