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Getting Back to Work

tesla.com

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Re: Getting Back to Work

#211

Post by rasengan »

koheripbal wrote: post #184
travisporter wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second link is an interesting read. Even though the virus was found on the floor and >6 ft away in a Chinese hospital, fortunately no staff were infected. I am not a scientist but I think they just tested for viral fragments versus active infectable viral particles. It’s reassuring but caution is still warranted.

Moreover comparing a HOSPITAL with a factory is ludicrous as the viral loads are orders of magnitude different.

Do you have scientific evidence of this?

Re: Getting Back to Work

#212

Post by valachio »

wegs wrote: post #203
smileysteve wrote: post #133

Having toured multiple car plants, and knowing Tesla is more automated than many, I am of the belief that much of the line work can successfully happen at social distances.

I think so too. My concern is about Tesla's leadership: 1) Elon Musk has made many comments downplaying COVID19, and 2) In photos (even in their Tesla Return-to-Work Playbook), the Leadership Team doesn't wear face masks (only the low-level workers do). The second issue is big. (1) They're clearly taking risks themselves (no PPE would be okay for a selfie, but these are clearly professional photoshoots with an AV tea…

1). I believe that Musk is treating this as it should be. The problem is that nearly everyone is over-reacting. A year from now, I believe that the world will realize that this was one giant over-reaction.

2). Is there really a need to over-analyze a photo shoot like that? High ranking officials usually don't wear masks (See Trump or Trudeau when they are talking to the press).

Re: Getting Back to Work

#213

Post by m_ke »

mdorazio wrote: post #200
marcinzm wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The estimated fatality rate with everything taken into account is around 0.5%. That's covering asymptomatic people, etc, etc. Assuming 200 million Americans get infected the result is 1 million additional deaths. That's a lot.

Among what age group, though? Using an average morbidity across the entire population is misleading. Everything I've read indicates that the morbidity scales very highly with age so that it would be something like (making this up here) 0.05% for people under 40, scaling up very quickly as you get to the elderly population. The question then becomes can we effectively quarantine at-risk groups instead of the entire po…

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/health/mysterious-coronav...

Re: Getting Back to Work

#214

Post by valachio »

foob4r wrote: post #164

Cancelling my Tesla pre-order - this is an abuse of workers (more blatant than before).

You know that the alternative is that the workers lose their jobs, and can't pay rent and feed their kids.

A lot of people in USA are living paycheck to paycheck, and it's reasonable to say blue collar workers are more likely to be in this category.

I would say that forcing people to stay home and not make money (and thus not being able to pay for rent and food) is an abuse of America's fundamental human rights.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#215

Post by theossuary »

This reminds me of a piece of this: https://chomsky.info/19960413/

Specifically, near the end

> Meaning, setting up a picture — it’s called anti-politics — the picture — but a very specific kind of anti-politics — you have to establish the image, you know, get into people’s heads, that the Government is the enemy- the Federal Government. State Governments are okay, because they can be sort of controlled by business anyway, so it doesn’t matter. But the Federal Government is sometimes a little too big to be pushed around, so it’s the enemy. And it cannot be, nobody can dream of the possibility, that the Government is of, by, and for the people. That’s impossible. It’s an enemy to be hated and feared.

While I don't necessarily disagree with it being the state's role to decide when and how to open back up, it does have its drawbacks. Companies can and (if Tesla is any indication) will use their influence with these states to open back up. The only thing left giving them pause is public opinion.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#216

Post by hyko »

tinus_hn wrote: post #208
hyko wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not boycotting Tesla. What I’m saying is that as a prospective customer I am not reassured that the company won’t just try and pull a load of weird shit on me in the future (either by imploding or screwing me over) and for that reason I can’t commit to them. It’s a great pity because we have to recognise they have essentially created the modern EV space, and I was actually looking forward to adopting their tech.

If you’re not boycotting them, why are you saying there’s no chance you’re ever going to buy their products?

A boycott is when you avoid an organisation in protest at something; I am exercising what I think is a rational consumer choice. I don’t believe that my action (or inaction) will have any impact on Tesla, nor do I want or need it to.

e.g. if you don’t like brand X Milk Chocolate and vow never to buy it, you’re not boycotting brand X but rather just exercising your right as a consumer.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#217

Post by BobbyJo »

marcinzm wrote: post #196
duckMuppet wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they think is about as relevant as opinion polls from a misinformed public. People largely have their mind made up about it about the covid because it's more of a religion now than anything else. Nevermind the numerous serology studies from multiple different countries which show exposure to the virus is highly prevalent with most individuals being asymptomatic. Nevermind the multiple recent studies in the U.S.…

The estimated fatality rate with everything taken into account is around 0.5%. That's covering asymptomatic people, etc, etc. Assuming 200 million Americans get infected the result is 1 million additional deaths. That's a lot.

Yes, but the goal of social distancing and everything has not been to drastically change the number of people that are ultimately infected, just to slow down the rate of spread. The disease is out there now. If you haven't gotten it already, you very likely will eventually.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#218

Post by babesh »

This is the very best article I have read on the lockdown: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/04/seattles-leade...

The positive is that Washington state acted early and the Bay Area followed quickly which resulted in lower hospitalization and deaths. Tech’s quick move to WFH probably helped slow the spread. This was driven by the Washington state health officials who worked with Microsoft. Bay Area tech companies quickly copied WFH.

The negative is that health officials manipulated the public like they were children: “ Constantine told me, “Jeff recognized what he was asking for was impractical. He said if we advised social distancing right away there would be zero acceptance. And so the question was: What can we say today so that people will be ready to hear what we need to say tomorrow?” In e-mails and phone calls, the men began playing a game: What was the most extreme advice they could give that people wouldn’t scoff at? Considering what would likely be happening four days from then, what would they regret not having said?”

Since the initial lockdown, it’s been more of the same. Slogans have changed: flatten the curve turns into prevent the health care system from being overrun which turns into driven by data. Lockdowns get extended: May 4 turns into June 1st and maybe beyond.

Takeaways: 1. Health care officials were right to initially lock down. 2. Health care officials and government don’t respect the public. 3. This dynamic is coming home to roost. 4. Health care officials think this is going to last a long time.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#220

Post by maest »

valachio wrote: post #212
wegs wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think so too. My concern is about Tesla's leadership: 1) Elon Musk has made many comments downplaying COVID19, and 2) In photos (even in their Tesla Return-to-Work Playbook), the Leadership Team doesn't wear face masks (only the low-level workers do). The second issue is big. (1) They're clearly taking risks themselves (no PPE would be okay for a selfie, but these are clearly professional photoshoots with an AV tea…

1). I believe that Musk is treating this as it should be. The problem is that nearly everyone is over-reacting. A year from now, I believe that the world will realize that this was one giant over-reaction. 2). Is there really a need to over-analyze a photo shoot like that? High ranking officials usually don't wear masks (See Trump or Trudeau when they are talking to the press).

What new information do you think will become available in one year's time to make it obvious that this was an over-reaction?

If it's about total number of deaths - we know that know and even if the number is lower, it means the lockdown worked, no?

If it's, for example, new information becoming available about covid virality, that will be irrelevant, as people have to make decisions now with the information available now.

Re 2) it's expected and important for leadership to set the tone. Arguably what Trump and Trudeau are doing (if what you say is true) is wrong.

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