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Getting Back to Work

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161–170 of 332 posts

Re: Getting Back to Work

#161
post #17

I’d like to know what Tesla factory workers think. It’s seeming clear to me from various polls that at most 20% of Americans think ‘oh everything is fine let’s go back to work and school tomorrow.’ So opinions on social distancing are not as polarized as you would think from the media.

What they think is about as relevant as opinion polls from a misinformed public. People largely have their mind made up about it about the covid because it's more of a religion now than anything else. Nevermind the numerous serology studies from multiple different countries which show exposure to the virus is highly prevalent with most individuals being asymptomatic. Nevermind the multiple recent studies in the U.S.…

Most of this is not supported by the evidence, and there’s far more uncertainty in the data and studies than you’re portraying here.

But putting that aside, it sounds like you think that politicians are making this seem way worse than it is, in order to exercise more power and control over people’s lives. OK, not the most ridiculous idea I’ve ever heard, even if there are some huge glaring holes in the logic there.

What about the scientific and medical community? Are they in on this too? Because I certainly haven’t heard an outcry from epidemiologists and virologists and physicians that we’re grossly overreacting and that the virus isn’t that big of a deal. Why not?

It’s ironic, because to my mind, your first paragraph perfectly captures my impression of your position: misinformed but fervently clinging to a religious position that doesn’t seem to match the view of the actual experts.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#162
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem of course is that Tesla is ardently anti-union - the workers have no one to speak on their behalf

unions helped kill the car companies

So did the leadership, and every other circumstance that makes the US an expensive place to live and work compared to budding economies.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#163
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, looking at the bigger picture I can't help seeing the absurdity of it. For all the praising of Tesla cars, which might very well be founded, it's just a freaking car in a market where demand fell off a cliff.

I have to wonder if these actions by Musk are going to hurt the brand image of Tesla. Sure people buy the car because it has cool gimmick features and is electric, but when you buy a car for $30k+ there's a reason you spent that kind of money: the car is a form of self expression (whether one would like to admit it or not.) When one buys a Tesla, it indicates that they are with the times, both technologically and soc…

Yes. I would probably still buy a Tesla at this point if I were going to buy a new car, but Musk continually drives down my enthusiasm for doing so.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#165
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if these actions by Musk are going to hurt the brand image of Tesla. Sure people buy the car because it has cool gimmick features and is electric, but when you buy a car for $30k+ there's a reason you spent that kind of money: the car is a form of self expression (whether one would like to admit it or not.) When one buys a Tesla, it indicates that they are with the times, both technologically and soc…

Didn't Tesla push the boundaries on EV, though, whereas traditional car companies were just fine with continuing production of gas based vehicles? I guess there were hybrids but it felt like Toyota was the only big player there.

Chevy was also a big EV/hybrid player in the mid to late '00s.

I think the sort of individual that buys an expensive vehicle to, at least in part, broadcast that they are an environmentally-conscious person would be turned off by a company strong-arming a county into relaxing regulations, especially when such deregulation is perceived to put that company's workers at risk.

While the facts of what public policy is best can be debated, it seems inevitable that Tesla's brand will suffer from this.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon plays fast and loose with his opinions in public discourse, but generally when Tesla makes an official move like this it seems to be more thoroughly considered by a larger group of people than just Elon. I have the same gut feeling that you seem to have when I first hear these stories, but the associated press releases seem to consistently have concrete foundations that I don't initially expect. In this case, th…

This really is the best comment I read on here. I'd like to add that in the Joe Rogan interview, Elon's main point is not "let's open Tesla factories, I don't care that many people will die" like some seem to imply here on Hacker News. His main point was that the data is we have on covid epidemiology doesn't say much and we "need to cleanup the data", which seams totally reasonable to me. Decisions are being taken by…

As of this writing, 281,057 people have died from COVID 19. 2 months ago that number was < 8,000. Forgive me if I don't advocate for massively increasing the transmission rate during an active, uncontained, global pandemic.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#167
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, looking at the bigger picture I can't help seeing the absurdity of it. For all the praising of Tesla cars, which might very well be founded, it's just a freaking car in a market where demand fell off a cliff.

I have to wonder if these actions by Musk are going to hurt the brand image of Tesla. Sure people buy the car because it has cool gimmick features and is electric, but when you buy a car for $30k+ there's a reason you spent that kind of money: the car is a form of self expression (whether one would like to admit it or not.) When one buys a Tesla, it indicates that they are with the times, both technologically and soc…

I saved up for a used Tesla this year and have decided to hold off. I asked on another HN thread whether musk believes in climate change and didn’t hear anything. But to me, the covid tweets going against science makes me think he doesn’t really care for a low carbon footprint. So I guess I don’t know now if it is really a net carbon benefit to owning a Tesla versus another sedan over the next five years.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#168

Having toured multiple car plants, and knowing Tesla is more automated than many, I am of the belief that much of the line work can successfully happen at social distances.

…because you were able to detect - with your naked eye - the absence of microscopic virus molecues on the various factory surfaces. Wow

You mocked the worst possible straw-man interpretation of your parent's comment. Smileysteve clearly meant his tour of the plant indicated relatively few workers in the plant relative to other plants, and work could probably be arranged to keep them a certain distance from each other.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#169
post #164

Cancelling my Tesla pre-order - this is an abuse of workers (more blatant than before).

> this is an abuse of workers (more blatant than before).

I don't know if I'd personally use the word "abuse", but a post in another forum noted some OSHA statistics:

> In fact, data collected by Forbes shows that Tesla has accumulated more than three times the number of Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) violations that its top 10 competitors amassed from 2014-2018.

* https://www.thedrive.com/news/26727/tesla-had-3-times-as-man...

> A review by Forbes found 24 investigations by California Occupational Safety and Health Administration inspectors from 2014 to 2018, resulting in fines for 54 violations. These include new penalties that haven't yet hit the national online OSHA database, and they nearly double Tesla's fines over the last five years, to $236,730.

* https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...

Re: Getting Back to Work

#170

What I didn't see mentioned that concerns me (although I admit it might be a concern born purely out of ignorance): No mention of whether employees would be provided with a minimum of 2 weeks paid sick leave should they show symptoms of COVID-19. Any employee who has a reasonable chance of becoming ill with COVID-19 at their work, and who does not also have a minimum of 2 weeks paid leave, should, by all logic I can…

I can't speak about California specifically, but in Canada, if it can be reasonably be proven that the illness was obtained at the workplace, the employer is required to pay for the sick leave by the local health benefits service (State/Provincial/Federal level), which in this case would be two weeks.

The employer can fight the filing, but in the situation of COVID-19, it's reasonably easy to prove it was a workplace based infection (multiple people will get sick).

Side note, when you get payments from the local health benefits service, there's a %90 chance it's being paid by the employer to the health benefits service, which then transfers it to the employee

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