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Our Bookless Future

claremontreviewofbooks.com

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Re: Our Bookless Future

#41

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

This is really missing the point, IMO. The difference between paper print vs digital "print" is not the issue. The problem is more that TV, movies, social media and YT have created a post-literate culture where the primary model of communication is visual and emotional, not textual and abstracted.

That culture is extroverted rather than introverted, geared towards triggering simplistic emotional responses rather than exploring complex arguments with nuance, and actively hostile to abstraction and focused deep insight.

This mode has always existed, but long-form writing used to offer a potential refuge from it. Without a strong written culture that refuge ceases to exist.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#42

Post by osobo »

burlesona wrote: post #28

A lot of comments are debating the important of physical reading versus screen reading. I think that’s actually missing the point. > “Behind our screens, at work and at home, we have sutured the temporal segments of our days so as to switch our attention from one task or one source of stimulation to another. We cannot but be changed.” This part rings true for me. Last summer I read Cal Newport’s “Deep Work” and then…

Thing thing about committing stuff to memory is that it results in a fragmented install base across the 'user base' that may not get updated regularly. Even just double-checking Google before you act on existing knowledge may prove that new insights have caught up with what you held to be true, and you need to update your knowledge. I'm fairly certain that this "knowledge in the cloud" aspect of Google actually makes us faster and more coherent as a whole. It's just going to be somewhat of an issue when there is no internet around.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#43

Post by deltat519 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #41

This is really missing the point, IMO. The difference between paper print vs digital "print" is not the issue. The problem is more that TV, movies, social media and YT have created a post-literate culture where the primary model of communication is visual and emotional, not textual and abstracted. That culture is extroverted rather than introverted, geared towards triggering simplistic emotional responses rather than…

Yes, I agree. These days I find it harder and harder to consume long-form content. I have to consciously tell my self "Hey, you're going to finish this paragraph," which is such a depressing thought to have. The web has turned my attention span to mush...

Re: Our Bookless Future

#44

Post by sq_ »

culturestate wrote: post #24
sq_ wrote: post #9

This line from the article really caught my attention: > In sum, Wolf says, the paper reading brain has better memory, more imagination, immersion, and patience, and more knowledge than the screen reading brain. I've been torn for years about how to feel about my reading and writing habits. I love reading physical books, especially when I'm trying to develop a deep understanding of some topic, and I have, at times, m…

I don't notice much of a difference with reading, but I do feel the same way about writing; digital todo lists or notes just don't work for me. I used to think this was about the act of writing in itself - that doing it by hand forced me to be more conscious of the information - but writing with e.g. an Apple Pencil on an iPad is just as useless as typing. I'd really like to figure this out because I love the idea of…

I've also thought about trying out a reMarkable! I'm a little too cash-strapped to justify it these days, but maybe sometime in the future.

I agree with other commenters here that a lot of it could be conditioning, but I've also found, like you, that even handwriting on devices is lacking compared to doing it with pen and paper. My personal theory is that it might have something to do with the ability to reason in a more spatially oriented way when we use pen and paper to write things down.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#45

Post by sq_ »

aspectmin wrote: post #31
sq_ wrote: post #9

This line from the article really caught my attention: > In sum, Wolf says, the paper reading brain has better memory, more imagination, immersion, and patience, and more knowledge than the screen reading brain. I've been torn for years about how to feel about my reading and writing habits. I love reading physical books, especially when I'm trying to develop a deep understanding of some topic, and I have, at times, m…

Agreed. I still remember best when I take notes on paper. (I was a voracious reader as a kid, still read a lot now). I bring notebooks to meetings and write notes. It helps my recall immensely. I've tried so many other todo and note apps it isn't funny. None of them really worked as well as me keeping lists on paper of things to do: A list of what I want to accomplish today, a list of key things I need to do, and a b…

Same here on bringing notebooks to meetings. I didn't for a long time, but I picked it back up recently at the urging of a friend, and I've found myself really enjoying it. Doing something with my hands while in meetings really helps me to stay focused, and I've definitely found that I remember better.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#46

Post by kd5bjo »

lenkite wrote: post #33
sq_ wrote: post #9

This line from the article really caught my attention: > In sum, Wolf says, the paper reading brain has better memory, more imagination, immersion, and patience, and more knowledge than the screen reading brain. I've been torn for years about how to feel about my reading and writing habits. I love reading physical books, especially when I'm trying to develop a deep understanding of some topic, and I have, at times, m…

I believe this is simple conditioning. There are many people like me who learn better from ebooks, online-papers and pdf's rather than dead-tree books. We can annotate, attach notes, add/remove highlights and most importantly: search without needing a painful index and simultaneously study 2 or more books on the same subject with little trouble in shifting context. With paper books, all this is very painful - too muc…

To each his own, I guess. With the exception of search, I can do all of those things more easily in a physical book than electronically — I find that the physical motion and context helps me remember things.

I replace searching with maintaining my own comprehensive index. It forces me to think about what I’ve read and consider the situations in which it might be useful so that I can file it away correctly. I read fewer things this way, but they stick in my memory better, for probably a similar net result.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#48

Post by kd5bjo »

baxtr wrote: post #29
culturestate wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't notice much of a difference with reading, but I do feel the same way about writing; digital todo lists or notes just don't work for me. I used to think this was about the act of writing in itself - that doing it by hand forced me to be more conscious of the information - but writing with e.g. an Apple Pencil on an iPad is just as useless as typing. I'd really like to figure this out because I love the idea of…

Same here. I’m so much more productive whenever I write down my todos on a simple sheet of paper. I have a very elaborated online todo list. But still, paper works more effectively. I have no clue why and it frustrates me

I think part of it is that paper is completely unopinionated: all it’s doing is holding whatever marks you make for later. That means your brain has to do the work of deciding what marks to make and their meaning; the more work your brain does on any given task, the more memories there are for you to latch onto when remembering.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#49

Post by sq_ »

lenkite wrote: post #33
sq_ wrote: post #9

This line from the article really caught my attention: > In sum, Wolf says, the paper reading brain has better memory, more imagination, immersion, and patience, and more knowledge than the screen reading brain. I've been torn for years about how to feel about my reading and writing habits. I love reading physical books, especially when I'm trying to develop a deep understanding of some topic, and I have, at times, m…

I believe this is simple conditioning. There are many people like me who learn better from ebooks, online-papers and pdf's rather than dead-tree books. We can annotate, attach notes, add/remove highlights and most importantly: search without needing a painful index and simultaneously study 2 or more books on the same subject with little trouble in shifting context. With paper books, all this is very painful - too muc…

I don't disagree that it could be conditioning. You make really good points about the benefits of doing things digitally. At some point I really need to spend a few months going all-in on doing it digitally and see if I can make it work for me.

Definitely an area where everyone works differently and it takes serious effort to figure out what's best for you personally.

Re: Our Bookless Future

#50

Post by readarticle »

kd5bjo wrote: post #46
lenkite wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is simple conditioning. There are many people like me who learn better from ebooks, online-papers and pdf's rather than dead-tree books. We can annotate, attach notes, add/remove highlights and most importantly: search without needing a painful index and simultaneously study 2 or more books on the same subject with little trouble in shifting context. With paper books, all this is very painful - too muc…

To each his own, I guess. With the exception of search, I can do all of those things more easily in a physical book than electronically — I find that the physical motion and context helps me remember things. I replace searching with maintaining my own comprehensive index. It forces me to think about what I’ve read and consider the situations in which it might be useful so that I can file it away correctly. I read few…

I wonder if there’s a correlation between usage of debuggers vs printf, and the different strategies you all have taken towards reading.
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