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James Damore and three others end Google suit

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Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#751

Post by downerending »

mabbo wrote: post #184

Damore committed the ultimate sin in the corporate world- he caused a huge PR mess. Let's set aside the content of his memo (I personally don't agree with what he said) and just appreciate that he made a mess. As has been said before, if your CEO learns your name for the same reason he has to end his vacation early, you probably should start polishing up your resume.

All true. And in addition, we got to see the reactions of a large number of insiders, which changed the way a lot of us think about Google. If you haven't read the internal list captures, you owe it to yourself to do so.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#752

Post by AsyncAwait »

_wt8k wrote: post #728
AsyncAwait wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with neoliberalism is that it does little to 'lift the poor' in practice, yet maintains strong rhetoric to that effect. With regards to medicare for all and free college, I am an European, where these policies have been implemented to various degrees rather successfully. My issue is with the way neoliberalism seems to be clinically used to rhetorically support many left ideas, while in reality not doing any…

Thank you for your reply. I think I understand this better now.

Thanks, I just found the perfect example to illustrate too:

https://twitter.com/RepJoeKennedy/status/1258900004623835136

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#753

Post by jacobriis »

hpliferaft wrote: post #414
bobmcbobface wrote: post #373

THERE'S A HUGE SHORTAGE OF MEN IN NURSING! THIS IS OBVIOUSLY DUE TO INHERENT SEXISM AND FEMALE TOXICITY! HOW DO WE SOLVE THIS ISSUE?

If you take 30 seconds to Google you'll find a bunch of sources that indicate the low percentage of men in nursing is nuanced. It's not just toxicity or gatekeeping. Examples: "Research indicates that ideas of masculinity prevent men from pursuing a career in nursing." - https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/653570048/why-more-men-dont-g... "The problem is that notions of masculinity die hard, in women as well as men." http…

Low percentage of men is nuanced, low percentage of women is racist.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#754

Post by danbolt »

JSavageOne wrote: post #601
wpietri wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has everything to do with politics. Go take a look at the various declarations of secession when the slaveholding US states tried to quit and form the Confederacy. A number of them explicitly mention that a system of racial slavery is fine because black people were naturally inferior, which is how in the 1850s one would have said "biological differences". That was very obviously politics. Further, there's an eno…

So what are you trying to say, we shouldn't be allowed to talk about gender differences? There's an enormous difference between the references you made because they are all trying to rationalize treating a race/gender as inferior. On top of that, there is no real scientific evidence backing anything up and it all basically amounts to inferring causation from correlation (ie. they are inferior because they are poor).…

> Women are not "discriminated against" when it comes to signing up for computer science classes in high school or choosing to major in computer science in university, yet significantly less of them sign up for these classes then men. There is no discrimination going on here since any women can sign up for any class of their choosing in high school. Clearly something is causing this gender imbalance, what might that be?

Gee, that must be some sort of biological factor! Certainly not related to social aspects outside of signing up for a high school computer science class.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#755

Post by tootie »

sullija722 wrote: post #680
tootie wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the outrage mob in this case is entirely justified. Damore has had plenty of opportunity to apologize. As much as he had a chance to not say anything at all. Political debate is one thing. Misogyny is another. He created a hostile environment. He got fired. I'd be fine knowing this ruined his life.

This is how free speech dies. I despise Trump and the right, but the outrage mob and the left is just as bad (and probably more effective) with their ability to destroy peoples' livelihoods for expressing any opinion or questioning the left's dogma.

No it isn't. Free speech means you can't be prosecuted for speech. It doesn't mean people can't hate you. You're literally up here telling me I shouldn't speak. What's the difference between saying women are inferior and saying sexists are inferior? The answer is that I'm actually correct.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#756

Post by [deleted] »

jlebar wrote: post #612
banads wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also assume anything you say can/will be purposefully taken out of context and twisted in order to create rage click bait to satisfy someone's ideological crusade, or to generate revenue for a dying industry which is incentivized to cater to the lowest common denominator just to survive.

Literally his whole memo was posted online, in full. I struggle to understand the context that was missing.

[deleted]

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#757

Post by ashtonkem »

JSavageOne wrote: post #670
ashtonkem wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t dismiss things by calling them political, although apparently you do. I just think it’s insanely naive to believe that you can write a 10 page document on a gender related company policy and not have it become political quickly. You can’t post a 10 document article in response to a corporate policy about gender in hiring and not expect that to be interpreted as an argument against said policy. Whether or not…

> You can’t post a 10 document article in response to a corporate policy about gender in hiring and not expect that to be interpreted as an argument against said policy. The memo certainly challenged Google's corporate policy. So what? You think anyone who has an opposing view on a corporate policy and can back their view up with facts and evidence should be fired? Personally I'm not big on authoritarianism/totalitar…

You’re absolutely making up my point, which is extremely annoying.

All I’m saying is that arguing about policy is politics. That’s it.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#758

Post by [deleted] »

bradleyjg wrote: post #359
AzzieElbab wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a geek with 0 real life experience outside Google know that? It is not what they told him about "internal discussions".

The people that want everything made explicit and all lies banished from human relations lost, have always lost, and will always lose. I recognize that for some this imposes significant hardship but changing everyone else’s human nature is not a reasonable accommodation. The kindest thing those of us that know young people of this type can do is pull them aside and explain how the world works. It is unkind to feed th…

[deleted]

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#759

Post by balls187 »

jariel wrote: post #733
balls187 wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not entirely unreasonable intellectual opinion Despite reasoning his point of view well, it does not mean it's right, healthy, or valid. And while Sexism and Racism are not equal, there do parallel in many ways. How different is his memo than writings that discuss how the Negroid is a lesser form of human species, and there for it's condition is justified? Scientifically, there is very little, if anything, that dif…

You are crossing streams. This is not about whether Damore was 'right or wrong' - it's about whether he was within his right to make a reasonable statement and not get publicly murdered for it. Also - your comment has also demonstrated the intellectual dishonestly against him by misrepresenting the thrust of his argument. There are considerable differences between genders, this is not a scientifically controversial p…

> It's obviously a thorny subject, which requires some dispassionate thinking. We don't need people screaming 'Nazi' at the first hint that they might think someone, somewhere committed a 'thought crime' against their personal and very narrow view of the world.

Speaking of intellectual dishonesty...

"Women are just as equal as men" does not seem to be a very narrow view of the world.

> This is the kind of bigotry that is not 'right, healthy or valid'.

What bigotry is that--calling sexism for exactly what it is?

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#760

Post by ALittleLight »

wpietri wrote: post #710
ALittleLight wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google didn't fire Damore when he wrote the memo. They didn't fire him when he shared it for feedback. They didn't fire him when it was internal discussion. They fired him when it leaked to press and there was a social media furor. The idea that Google fired Damore for anything other than bad publicity is not supported by evidence. They asked him for feedback. He provided an intelligent and well researched document.…

Could you please show me your source for the claim that they asked him for feedback?

Sure. Wikipedia has a description of it citing a Guardian article.

"James Damore was spurred to write the memo when a Google diversity program he attended solicited feedback."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Ch...

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