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The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

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71–80 of 92 posts

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#71

The macbook pro is not competing with the Acer swift. A lot fo people buy for the OS, which Acer doesn't have, and the brand/build quality, which acer doesnt have. For a lot of people, the benchmarks might be among the last thing they care about. The laptops the acer swift 3 should terrify are other 700 dollar windows laptops without the ryzen and as well as any highly premium windows laptops with customers that pay…

Not only that, but not as many Mac users are gaming on their laptop, which is a strong reason to need good benchmarks. If I'm buying a laptop it's really the user experience and battery life that I care about. Any CPU heavy tasks I can do on my desktop computer or an EC2 instance. By the way, I assume this article is partly about gaming because of the preview image, but I was unable to read it on mobile thanks to all…

I agree that what matters most is UX and battery life, but these are not fixed and are actually pretty malleable, otherwise the only thing that would beat a mbp could only be next year's mbp.

I had a laptop with terrible battery (desktop replacement) and it was great for my use. I also have a xps13 and it's great. I also had a mbp15 and it was great too. As you guessed, I had a different use case for each.

If I had to spend my money, would probably be the Acer as long as battery was ok.

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#72
post #64
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only are they better built In this case, but there are plenty of examples of a sub-par performance from Apple. Broken keyboards, display cable issues, shipping with overheating CPU profiles, removing buttons, useless touch bar display, removal of ports - to name a few. As Rossman says: "the only part on a MacBook that doesn't blow are the fuses". > they also run macOS Again, not been a fan of their recent work.…

> I can get a very macOS-esque experience in Linux. The problem is the “can get.” If you value your time at, say, $200/hr, how long can you spend learning about Linux distros, repos, software, and troubleshooting issues etc before you’ve spent the savings from buying a non-Mac-native laptop?

How much time have you spent working around MacOS bullshit?

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#74
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL2 is fast, rock-solid and outperforms a Mac with iterm2 by far. I don't know which fluidity you mean on a multi montior setup you lack on Windows. Re short-cuts Windows has more (just think of win+number or built in window management) or autohotkey which owns karabiner. MacOs is good if you need Xcode but other than that? Idk

> WSL2 is fast, rock-solid and outperforms a Mac with iterm2 by far. You have benchmarks for this? I’m running a Windows Pro installation with a Core i7 4790K and 16GB memory. My 2015 MacBook is much faster. I honestly thought the WSL thing was just a gimmick and some online searching told me that there are IO performance issues.

No benchmarks but I had never issues with WSL2. I on a 8550u with 8gb.

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#75
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WSL2 is fast, rock-solid and outperforms a Mac with iterm2 by far. You have benchmarks for this? I’m running a Windows Pro installation with a Core i7 4790K and 16GB memory. My 2015 MacBook is much faster. I honestly thought the WSL thing was just a gimmick and some online searching told me that there are IO performance issues.

No benchmarks but I had never issues with WSL2. I on a 8550u with 8gb.

[deleted]

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#76
post #8
post #3

The Acer Swift is limited to only 8GB of (non-upgrade) ram, which is a deal breaker for most developers. I also wonder about that Wi-Fi 6 chip and its Linux support. If it wasn't for those factors, I'd probably get one.

This is totally an aside, and probably shows how out of touch I am, but there must be developers who need 8+ GB, and others who don't. I was always under the impression that things like editors and compilers didn't need a lot of computing performance. So I'm curious what kinds of development demand more performance. Is it a hard wall that you hit, or more of just a progressive degradation of performance?

Any kind of major Java development can eat up gigabytes of RAM easily.

You're right that editors and compilers don't necessarily require a lot of computational power, so programming doesn't necessarily require a computational powerhouse. However, lots of professional development (or the majority of it?) is nowadays done with an IDE rather than with just an editor and a compiler, and full-featured IDEs tend to be heavier especially in terms of RAM. Also, compilation can take significant time if the project is large.

My current no-GUI hobby project written in C takes about half a second to compile from scratch on my laptop, but build times of 10 to 60 seconds aren't uncommon for Java web application projects.

As for memory, a major IDE used e.g. in Java development might gulp down a GB or two depending on your project, or on whether you need to have multiple projects open at the same time, etc.

In case of server-side Java development, you'll be deploying the software on an application server or at least using a Java-based web application framework of some kind. If your software is large or you happen to be using a heavyweight application server, this might take up anything from a few hundred MB to something in the gigabyte range.

Mobile developers aren't deploying on application servers, but I suppose they also need to be running some kind of a phone simulator or something to run their apps.

If you need a virtual machine e.g. for testing on a different OS, that's going to have an overhead of a few hundred MB per VM.

Add in a browser that tends to have quite a lot of tabs open (because you usually have at least a few tabs open for reading basic documentation or specifications, plus whatever other information you need to be looking for in your current technological rabbit hole), and that can take a couple of GB, too. That's of course in no particular way specific to software development, but it does add up.

So, to pull some numbers out of a hat:

- base operating system: ~1.5 GB

- an IDE: ~1.5 GB

- an application server or other platform for test deployments: 1 GB

- browser with a bunch of tabs open: ~2.5 GB

- a virtual machine, or some kind of a background service running in a container: 1 GB

That's already 7.5 GB for a project that's not necessarily even huge. Assuming you've got 8 GB of RAM, that leaves only 0.5 GB for everything else (assuming no swapping).

Running out of RAM isn't a hard wall, at least not for most development, but it could slow down e.g. compiles of large projects if there isn't enough free memory left for a nice amount of disk cache. I wouldn't mind developing on 8 GB provided that the projects aren't that large and that there's a fast SSD, but having more may have its benefits.

Java is of course notorious for its memory use, so some developers using more lightweight platforms might have a different experience. Of course if they happen to need any other memory-hungry tools or services running on their local machine, that could again change things.

TL;DR: Editors can be lightweight, and compilers can compile a small-ish codebase quickly. The complexity of the tools and infrastructure used for professional development often changes that.

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#77
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind that requires you to collaborate on Slack.

Slack works fairly well in the browser, if you have one that’s not a resource hog.

It does until you need to do video calls. Then it tells you to either download Chrome or download the Slack app aka Chrome. :(

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slack works fairly well in the browser, if you have one that’s not a resource hog.

It does until you need to do video calls. Then it tells you to either download Chrome or download the Slack app aka Chrome. :(

People actually use Slack for calling? Color me surprised…

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#79
post #23

It's not just a case of dividing performance numbers by price - obviously the Apple machine is better built. The real question is: Is it built a $1000 dollars better and built well enough to overcome the fact it's slower (in these tests)? There are some pretty legitimate reasons to come away from Apple products now in my opinion, including some very competitive hardware at lower prices. I've been quite a happy Linux…

I've been using Apple laptops since the G4 Ti Powerbook (in ~2003 I think) - and have generally been on a ~2-4 year upgrade cycle. Last February (~15mo ago) I went from my 2015 13" MBP to a new Macbook Air - they had touch ID, no touchbar, I didn't mind the keyboard and the performance with similar to the old MBP I had.

Now I'm not sure if it's Catalina or the hardware itself - but this machine became almost unusably slow, coupled with some issue where it would not hold a charge - I would routinely open it up in the morning and it would give me the dead battery icon. On this particular issue I tried to dig into it, and something was waking it from sleep every ~5 minutes or so - it was quite evident on the power usage graph, and I found some others online with similar stories.

And even on top of this the machine would occasionally panic and reboot - I don't think I ever saw my old MBP do that, and I'm unsure if this is a function of the hardware or the OS update.

Either way I got pretty frustrated with it, as it had moved into the realm of how I remembered linux laptops - a month ago I finally made the call to get ride of it (read: give it to the wife) and get a new laptop.

I picked up a dell xps13, turned off the touchscreen in the bios and loaded up my debian netinst and began the process. Immediately I was hit with the wifi in this device needing the non-free drivers sigh just like I remember installing linux on a laptop...

Either way, I got it done and I'm actually really happy with the outcome - most things just work (wifi, media keys, keyboard backlight) straight out of the box - the only thing lacking is the fingerprint reader, which apparently Dell is releasing drivers for. The thing isn't perfect - battery life is ~5-6 hours (firefox, editor, terminals) where I think I was getting 8-9 at least on the MBA, and this is far from the advertised time under Windows.

So all in all, I feel that there has been a significant decline in the experience on Apple hardware over the last couple of years - as I said above I'm not sure if this is hardware, software or both. Another anecdata point: the wife picked up a new iMac when they were released pre-Catalina - she loved it, however after the Catalina update she has had endless problems - the filesystem reporting different amounts of free space depending on how you view it, Photos not loading, the iTunes migration has caused endless headaches... So whilst I'm unsure of the hardware quality, I'm sure this is in part due to the changes in Catalina.

Re: The $1,799 MacBook Pro 13 vs. the $650 Acer Swift 3

#80
post #64
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only are they better built In this case, but there are plenty of examples of a sub-par performance from Apple. Broken keyboards, display cable issues, shipping with overheating CPU profiles, removing buttons, useless touch bar display, removal of ports - to name a few. As Rossman says: "the only part on a MacBook that doesn't blow are the fuses". > they also run macOS Again, not been a fan of their recent work.…

> I can get a very macOS-esque experience in Linux. The problem is the “can get.” If you value your time at, say, $200/hr, how long can you spend learning about Linux distros, repos, software, and troubleshooting issues etc before you’ve spent the savings from buying a non-Mac-native laptop?

> If you value your time at, say, $200/hr, how long can you spend learning about Linux distros, repos, software,

A lot of software people already understand linux; obviously if you have to learn everything from scratch it's not the ideal productivity choice.

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