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James Damore and three others end Google suit

bloomberg.com

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Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#481

Post by Consultant32452 »

glenda wrote: post #453
Consultant32452 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if two groups/sides are equally discomforted by the other? Do you silence/fire them both? Is it majority rule?

I don’t have a good answer. But at that point some kind of outside discussion facilitation is probably necessary.

What's the most human narrative you're welling to place on Damore, that he might agree with? I'll try to think up a few...

1) Damore may have felt just as uncomfortable as his coworkers with what was being said, just in the opposite direction.

2) Damore, being a little spectrumy, attempted to derive an answer to a question about gender inequality in a cold and rational way, having no understanding that what he wrote would upset people. That's not the same as suggesting what he wrote is "correct." Correctness is irrelevant. As a person also on the spectrum, I can relate to this happening all.the.time. It's very difficult to understand what will upset people if you don't already have a mental rule about it. And rules are narrow.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#482

Post by wpietri »

twomoretime wrote: post #465
glenda wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never mentioned any of the theories in your response. There are all kinds of people who study gender in society from every possible angle, Damore doesn’t strike me as an expert in the field. Just a typical engineer who thinks he knows everything.

This appeal to authority is enormously frustrating when the authorities are also blindly political. Think for yourself. The physical differences between men and women are patently obvious, and how they translate to different performance in sports is clear. We understand why men and women are different physically - because specialization had strong selective pressure. Now why on earth would this specialization only ap…

You should really read a little more history. There's a long, long tradition of "patently obvious" "science" that just happens to justify the continued dominance of whatever group is top at the moment. As I mentioned elsewhere, Kendi's "Stamped from the Beginning" is an excellent examination of the racial aspect of that.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#483

Post by zozbot234 »

Igelau wrote: post #454
fullhd2 wrote: post #438

Imagine you are the offspring of immigrants who escaped a closed society and made their life in a relatively open one. Now imagine you start a company you fight the good fight and after years of work you created one of the most influential corporate internet giants the works has ever seen. And you think “okay I am going to use this power to make the world a fairer place so that nobody is ever disadvantages because of…

Destruction for anyone who would "stall the vision" Achievement unlocked: Violent Authoritarian Despot > offspring of immigrants who escaped a closed society Achievement unlocked: Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss

I guess OP's point is that authoritarianism is everywhere. Many of the low-level "phd's spreading propaganda" on these contentious issues have authoritarian streaks themselves and even if you don't, making attitudes even more divisive isn't exactly helping anyone.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#484

Post by ALittleLight »

ABeeSea wrote: post #349
sacks2k wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He never released anything to the public. Someone who didn't like his political views leaked it to Twitter and the press. If I were him, I would have personally sued the person that leaked the content and continued the fight until they had no money left. They really need to be taught a lesson that it's not okay to do something like this with the intention of destroying a person's life.

He failed the green eggs and ham test for written communication at work. >Would you like this in the press? >Would you like this at Brand X? >Like to read it on the stand? >Like it in the government's hand? https://www.legalethicsforum.com/blog/2006/12/over_at_white_...

I think his failure was just naivete. He thought Google wanted legitimate feedback or would support intellectual honesty over popularity. That was wrong.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#485

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

spangry wrote: post #238
mabbo wrote: post #184

Damore committed the ultimate sin in the corporate world- he caused a huge PR mess. Let's set aside the content of his memo (I personally don't agree with what he said) and just appreciate that he made a mess. As has been said before, if your CEO learns your name for the same reason he has to end his vacation early, you probably should start polishing up your resume.

If making a mess is what gets you fired, shouldn't google have gone after whoever leaked the memo, instead of Damore?

They fired the most vocal guy railing against Damore, so they plausibly could have fired the leaker as well.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#486

Post by rbanffy »

wpietri wrote: post #444
Igelau wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you wouldn't open the floor for political discussion. You're missing the point.

I am fascinated that on HN of all places people are suggesting that engineers should never be allowed to express opinions about workplace policy.

They are allowed. But they also need to take responsibility for the consequences of their message. If you alienate half of your colleagues, you'll probably get fired.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#487

Post by Reedx »

JSavageOne wrote: post #408

It's annoying that Bloomberg refers to the memo as being "political" and expressing "political conservatism". The memo was attempting to explain the underrepresentation of women in tech via biological differences. That has literally nothing to do with politics, and framing it as such misrepresents and discredits the contents of the memo.

Biology has become politicized like climate science did.

With each side discarding the inconvenient truths of science whenever it clashes with their tribal narrative. It's an absolute disaster.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#488

Post by Igelau »

wpietri wrote: post #444
Igelau wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you wouldn't open the floor for political discussion. You're missing the point.

I am fascinated that on HN of all places people are suggesting that engineers should never be allowed to express opinions about workplace policy.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that in the parent comment's particular case, knowingly inviting discussion and then firing people when you get butthurt is stupid.

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#489

Post by fullhd2 »

Igelau wrote: post #454
fullhd2 wrote: post #438

Imagine you are the offspring of immigrants who escaped a closed society and made their life in a relatively open one. Now imagine you start a company you fight the good fight and after years of work you created one of the most influential corporate internet giants the works has ever seen. And you think “okay I am going to use this power to make the world a fairer place so that nobody is ever disadvantages because of…

Destruction for anyone who would "stall the vision" Achievement unlocked: Violent Authoritarian Despot > offspring of immigrants who escaped a closed society Achievement unlocked: Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss

A nazi apologist might also argue that going to war with that sort of regime is a violent despotic act.

Let’s be clear. This Damore piece of crap can happily exercise his right to go work for a company that shares his value system. Research what happens to dissenters in “violent authoritarian” systems.

Why should he share the winnings of a system that was built on a value system that he diametrically opposes?

Re: James Damore and three others end Google suit

#490

Post by JPKab »

ravenstine wrote: post #439
JSavageOne wrote: post #408

It's annoying that Bloomberg refers to the memo as being "political" and expressing "political conservatism". The memo was attempting to explain the underrepresentation of women in tech via biological differences. That has literally nothing to do with politics, and framing it as such misrepresents and discredits the contents of the memo.

Is this what conservatism actually is, now? I'm just wondering because, although I agree that nothing Damore said was conservative in a traditional sense, maybe conservatism has just been made more broad in recent years. For instance, I don't believe that I'm conservative at all, but my liberal friends and family tend to classify me as "conservative". I find it baffling because most of my beliefs are pretty permissiv…

The right wing science deniers focus on global warming and evolution denial.

The left is nuclear power and biology denial.

Overlap on antivax.

Welcome to being hated by both sides of you actually use science to form your opinions, rather than justify preconceived beliefs.

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