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Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

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Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#41

Post by lowdose »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very unlikely, but if necessary Tesla would go through a Chapter 11 reorg, not a 7 liquidation. The brand, charging network, and manufacturing capacity has too much value to throw away. When Tesla was on the brink of insolvency years ago, he had a handshake deal with Larry Page (they jetpooled together) for Google to acquire Tesla and for Musk to continue to run day to day operations. Wasn’t necessary, but there are…

If Tesla goes through Chapter 11, there's no way in hell Musk will be running it afterwards. He gets away with all his shenanigans because he's a rain maker. If his incredible run of success dries up, the narrative is going to shift hard.

Yes Elon has a reality distortion field but that's allowed when pushing for real progress. A reality distortion field becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and it has the ability to change the fabric of our reality. I didn't expect the kind of naysayer here on HN.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#43

Post by gpm »

clouddrover wrote: post #33
gpm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He agreed to have material tweets reviewed by Tesla's in house counsel before publishing. With a specific definition of material and examples of content that would be material. This tweet IMHO doesn't fall under that definition of material. Even if you think it did, you're blindly assuming that this tweet wasn't reviewed (which it might well have been, if it was reviewed it was certainly legal instead of probably leg…

> Even if you think it did, you're blindly assuming that this tweet wasn't reviewed Musk said it wasn't reviewed: https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-stock-falls-after-ceo-twe... His tweets in general are not reviewed. He does not respect the SEC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIzGdoPu9vs

> Musk said it wasn't reviewed:

Huh, I hadn't seen that. You're right (upvoted you).

> His tweets in general are not reviewed. He does not respect the SEC:

I'm perfectly aware, I'm the sort of weirdo who reads the court filings in these lawsuits. I was hoping that he would have been ... cautious ... enough to get this tweet reviewed against the general policy since it is pushing the boundary of the agreement.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#44

Post by mire_rustling »

zozbot234 wrote: post #37
vikramkr wrote: post #3

It's really concerning that theres essentially a giant liability, Elon's personal debt, that doesnt show up on the balance sheet. As the article discusses, a margin call would be devastating, and hopefully any irresponsible decisions in his personal lifestyle choices don't spill over to put Tesla or SpaceX at risk. Especially considering how powerful a force they've been in driving consumer changes in vehicles and in…

Didn't Elon just tweet a few days ago that he'd be selling a lot of his personal stuff? That seems like he's being quite prudent and responsible if anything.

Everything he does is for PR. That tweet came out right before he got his bonus payout.

He's had controversy with the virus and his factories. By tweeting that out, he gave off a "billionaire doesn't care about money" vibe.

What got more coverage? His payout or his rambling tweets. He would have got more flak if the press covered his payout while he has been pushing his workers to get back into the factories.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#45

Post by gpm »

kasey_junk wrote: post #30
gpm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He agreed to have material tweets reviewed by Tesla's in house counsel before publishing. With a specific definition of material and examples of content that would be material. This tweet IMHO doesn't fall under that definition of material. Even if you think it did, you're blindly assuming that this tweet wasn't reviewed (which it might well have been, if it was reviewed it was certainly legal instead of probably leg…

Lol. That and a binding legal agreement that he’d have public statements reviewed. And the small thing of being removed as the chairman of the board. When the SEC starts dictating your board shape no one considers it a loss for the SEC.

> That and a binding legal agreement that he’d have public statements reviewed

As I just said, no such general legal agreement exists. The only legal agreement that exists is the one I described in my above comment.

I'd cite a source, but citing a negative is basically impossible. So I'd ask that instead you cite that agreement. Sec agreements are public documents.

Here is a link to the most recent agreement that the SEC settled with musk on - this is all they got the last time they sued. Note that the previous agreement (which you can dig up if you want) basically said the same in less words. https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.501755...

Order denying the SECs contempt motion as moot following the entry of that consent agreement: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.501755...

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#46

Post by dagnabbit »

api wrote: post #7
Alupis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either that, or Musk fails and brings down all the things propped up by his charisma and enthusiasm... and the world learns a lesson.

The lesson learned would be "don't do new things, and don't believe in anyone who suggests that you do new things." That's not a positive lesson. The other lesson could be "maybe we shouldn't rely on one person's charisma to drive us to do new and interesting things," but that's not likely to be the lesson learned.

That's silly. Nobody who criticizes Elon Musk does so on the basis that he does new things.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#47

Post by api »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #35
Alupis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think it's the second lesson that will be learned. Musk has been on the verge of failure for years, and cracks are showing now more than ever before. I'd hate for everyone to stop dreaming for tomorrow just because one guy couldn't pull off everything imaginable. For all the good things Musk does, he also does a lot of bad things. Including but not limited to dreaming up absurd fantasies to "reinvent" industries…

> But trusting all of the future to just one guy Part of the problem is not trusting the future to one guy, but rather that there is hardly more than one guy to trust it to. Where are the other Elon Musks? We need more people like him, not less.

Oh yeah. I've been on about that for years. If extreme wealth or political power were a meritocracy most billionaires and high-ranking political officials would be similarly productive and competent and he'd be average for his socioeconomic class. There should be hundreds and hundreds of Elon Musks at least.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#48

Post by hourislate »

vikramkr wrote: post #3

It's really concerning that theres essentially a giant liability, Elon's personal debt, that doesnt show up on the balance sheet. As the article discusses, a margin call would be devastating, and hopefully any irresponsible decisions in his personal lifestyle choices don't spill over to put Tesla or SpaceX at risk. Especially considering how powerful a force they've been in driving consumer changes in vehicles and in…

Perhaps Starlink will save him. It does have the potential to become a money printing machine.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#49

Post by gpm »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very unlikely, but if necessary Tesla would go through a Chapter 11 reorg, not a 7 liquidation. The brand, charging network, and manufacturing capacity has too much value to throw away. When Tesla was on the brink of insolvency years ago, he had a handshake deal with Larry Page (they jetpooled together) for Google to acquire Tesla and for Musk to continue to run day to day operations. Wasn’t necessary, but there are…

If Tesla goes through Chapter 11, there's no way in hell Musk will be running it afterwards. He gets away with all his shenanigans because he's a rain maker. If his incredible run of success dries up, the narrative is going to shift hard.

I think it depends on why Tesla goes Chapter 11 and who acquires it.

If it's because he did something entirely insane you're probably right. If it's because market conditions shifted post Covid-19 I think he's been enough of a rainmaker that people would likely still leave him in charge.

If a friend of his who is willing to put up with his antics (e.g. Larry Page) managed to acquire it, it's probably more likely than if risk adverse/sensational personality adverse institutional investors acquired it.

Admittedly at this point I doubt Larry Page would be able to easily front the money any more... Tesla's assets have grown substantially in value since back then.

Re: Elon Musk, Tech’s Cash-Poor Billionaire

#50

Post by gpm »

mire_rustling wrote: post #44
zozbot234 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Elon just tweet a few days ago that he'd be selling a lot of his personal stuff? That seems like he's being quite prudent and responsible if anything.

Everything he does is for PR. That tweet came out right before he got his bonus payout. He's had controversy with the virus and his factories. By tweeting that out, he gave off a "billionaire doesn't care about money" vibe. What got more coverage? His payout or his rambling tweets. He would have got more flak if the press covered his payout while he has been pushing his workers to get back into the factories.

> Everything he does is for PR. That tweet came out right before he got his bonus payout.

This is overly cynical. A fair bit of what he does is about PR - but not all of it. He's still human and it's pretty clear that he uses twitter as a stress relief mechanism (for better or worse).

Whether that was for PR or not is pretty unclear. It was basically simultaneous with him (according to him) having a fight with his girlfriend a few days before his child was born, and in the middle of him tweeting a bunch of nonsense that definitely wasn't for pr.

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