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OS X Isn't for Developers

zachholman.com

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Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#131

Post by diamondhead »

I agree with the title, but am not interested at the OSX / XCode stuff because I'm a very happy, satisfied Linux & Lenovo user.

My old company tried to force me to use a Macbook Pro, saying "developer community uses it", and I refused, saying "I give no piece of .... to a software with stupid and pretty looking icons, windows etc." because that stuff requires us to use mouse/touchpad stuff, which are useless, time wasting, uncomfortable and much less programmable, compared to a good keyboard ( good means not the ones apple produces )

As a coder, I want to be able to program my desktop to save time. There are many better ways to start a program clicking a pretty icon like a smiling cow, because we have a keyboard and also a program called dmenu -a real life saver-.

Guys claiming that OSX provides a developer friendly desktop environment should give a try to an ideal linux desktop. I'm not talking about the crappy ones trying to compete against pixar, like gnome kde etc, I'm suggesting the tiling window managers such as xmonad, dwm, dmenu etc. Especially, I love dmenu. It makes possible to find a bookmark I saved to my delicious account, in just one second, pressing window+p buttons. This awesomeness counts for my browser history also. I type URLs calling dmenu that completes my input by searching my history, no need to open a browser window, no need to use a mouse or sth equivelent. Another awesomeness I love about Linux is the customizable browsers like UZBL, it's very easy to bind a key for a specific task. I'm saving 30-40 bookmarks each day, thanks to the B button. Only thing I need to do to save a bookmark to my delicious account is to press B button.

Linux provides much more richer desktop environment with thousands of options, for the developers not fan of hipster UIs.

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#132

Post by nupark »

nl wrote: post #123
rayiner wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a law student, but I can buy the SOX thing. Companies have very different approaches to compliance, get advice from different counsel, account for things in different ways, etc. I feel like there is a Occam's Razor argument in here. What purpose besides SOX could Apple have in not giving away XCode 4? Could be pure greed as others are saying, but when Apple wants to make money they're incredibly good at it. How…

They why $5? Why not 1c, or 99c, or make it $99 and include a year's membership? I said it elsewhere, but I'll say it again here: can you really imagine Steve Jobs agreeing to charge for something he didn't want to charge for because of accounting practices ?

can you really imagine Steve Jobs agreeing to charge for something he didn't want to charge for because of accounting practices?

They might have been lying, but Apple has publicly claimed this before:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/07/01/16/2127204/Apple-Ch...

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#133

Post by [deleted] »

holman wrote: post #48
tvon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't involve credit cards as xcode 3 is still freely available. If Apple does not include the developer tools on the Lion DVD, and if they remove all free versions of xcode for download, then I don't doubt someone will package up the "build essentials" for OSX and make them available. To date there has been no reason to do this, but if there is a reason, there is nothing preventing it that I am aware of. edit:…

Xcode 3 doesn't solve the issue of it being a real pain in the butt to install. gcc by itself is much, much smaller and much less of an issue for a casual user to install.

[deleted]

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#134

Post by matt2224 »

holman wrote: post #54
otterley wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "XCode 3 is still free" do you not understand?

I was more reacting to the common argument that "$5 is not expensive". My apologies if that's not what they were addressing in this comment. That said, Xcode 3 doesn't satisfy the requirement of being easy or quick to install for a casual user.

What's this rubbish about Xcode 3 being hard to install? It's on your OS X CD. From there on, it's just a one-click install process. Even if you downloaded it, the process is the same. If a developer can't be bothered to do that, then they probably dont give a damn in the first place.

Casual users =/= developers

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#135

Post by tvon »

nl wrote: post #110
statictype wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about iTunes? Why don't they have to charge for iTunes?

Because the whole "SOX accounting theory" is made up by people who don't know what they are talking about. In its defense it was initially put forward as speculation ("what about this theory"), but now is being taken as fact.

It's the theory for xcode based on Apple claiming it was the reason to charge iPod Touch users for iOS 2 or 3 (I forget which). IIRC.

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#136

Post by jsz0 »

statictype wrote: post #88
thought_alarm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X ships with XCode. Apple has never released a major XCode upgrade in-between OS releases until now.

What about iTunes? Why don't they have to charge for iTunes?

Good question. My guess is it depends on what components Apple officially accounts for as being parts of OSX. Keep in mind Apple was under investigation by the SEC for many years so they are probably following the rules extra carefully. After the SOX rules were changed last year (IIRC) Apple immediately changed some of their accounting practices to provide free iOS updates for the iPod Touch so I tend to believe them.

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#137

Post by redacted »

holman wrote: post #60
sabat wrote: post #30

Compared to what other platform? Windows? Developer support out-of-the-box on Windows? Linux, sure, but Linux is since its inception a developer's OS. Mac OS lies somewhere in between. There are many happy developers running OS X, and paying $5 for XCode doesn't make me mad enough to rant. Dude, it's $5. You paid nearly that for Angry Birds.

I'll pay $100 for Xcode and not use it and not even care. We're not the point. It's the casual users that want to get into a library that I'm concerned about. That want to use a C library on their machine. That want to use ImageMagick in their PHP site. Those are the ones that an unavailable gcc hurt the most.

It's the casual users that want to use ImageMagick in their PHP site?!

No offence intended, but I think we have different definitions of "casual user"...

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#138

Post by matt2224 »

diamondhead wrote: post #131

I agree with the title, but am not interested at the OSX / XCode stuff because I'm a very happy, satisfied Linux & Lenovo user. My old company tried to force me to use a Macbook Pro, saying "developer community uses it", and I refused, saying "I give no piece of .... to a software with stupid and pretty looking icons, windows etc." because that stuff requires us to use mouse/touchpad stuff, which are useless, time wa…

Well this is just trolling.

Re: OS X Isn't for Developers

#140

Post by perpetuity »

nl wrote: post #107
geuis wrote: post #62

I disagree with all of the OP's points, except for one. Yes, Macs are incredibly popular with developers. 1) The reason I have always liked Macs since I was a kid is they basically come with what they need, and its easy to install extra stuff if you need it. Just because many developers like Macs doesn't mean that most Mac owners are developers. Most are just normal people who would wonder what is eating up extra spa…

Its been demonstrated many times that Apple charges these $5 fees for previously free tools and applications because of SOX compliance laws... Its rather obvious its about SOX. No, it's not at all. The only "evidence" for that is a bunch of uninformed developers speculating about things they know nothing about. OTOH, there is quite a bit of evidence that this isn't the case: 1) Why didn't they charge before? They've…

Dude. Calm down, you can download them for free, FREE! A developer.apple.com with a FREE account
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