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We Chat, They Watch

citizenlab.ca

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Re: We Chat, They Watch

#391

Post by madeofpalk »

modeless wrote: post #43
madeofpalk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We one downfall of iMessage is that because they facilitate key exchange, Apple can add their own key to your profile and read all your messages. Though, my limited understanding of iMessage is that if you were to sniff the network traffic you could detect this.

There's another downfall of iMessage. If you have iCloud backup enabled, your iMessage encryption keys are saved to iCloud, allowing Apple to decrypt your messages. And even if you disable iCloud backup, Apple can still read your messages if the person you're talking to has iCloud backup enabled. This is not a secret, it's documented behavior. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 And it's not theoretical, because…

Are your iMessage encryption keys stored in iCloud? Or is a seperate copy of your messages (encrypted with a key Apple controls) uploaded to iCloud for sync?

Edit:

> Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.

So Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, but if you enable iCloud Backup (a different product/feature), then your backup will include the key used to encrypt it.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#392

Post by taneq »

rorykoehler wrote: post #297
balola wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what the gov is doing (ostensibly) makes them rich, e.g. they can afford cars and condo prices double every few years, them yes, the majority of people doesn't care.

You can have those things without the oppression. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

I don't think anyone's saying oppression is necessary, merely that bread and circuses have always been enough to placate the masses. Nobody revolts on a full stomach.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#393

Post by FpUser »

TomMckenny wrote: post #354
FpUser wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say anything about treatment of it's own people. I was talking about propaganda.

Perhaps the propaganda efforts are comparable but I submit that it is a topic separate form Chinese censorship that extends well outside China. Likewise, in a discussion of US propaganda, to bring up Chinese censorship as a rebuttal would be a strangely off topic distraction.

Well whenever anything related to China is being discussed the "but they imprison dissidents/disappear people/etc" almost always comes up right away but since China (and for that sake Russia as well) are "bad" it is Ok to distract.

I do not like what China is doing to their people. But I also do not like our western self righteous hypocrisy. Do we really need to feel good about us doing bad things if somebody else is worse? By that logic let's take some African country and call China a saint.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#395

Post by enitihas »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #98

It’s worth noting that Facebook Messenger also intercepts and filters messages. For example, it’s impossible to send a message containing the link “joebiden.info”. On the mobile app, it will simply say “failed to send.” On desktop, it will tell you the link violates its “community standards” and cannot be shared.

Someone should do a Tell HN on it.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#396

Post by NikolaeVarius »

sheepdestroyer wrote: post #235
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. A service I built+run started getting overrun with bot users. The signup CAPTCHA didn’t help because they’d sign-up for accounts using humans - then after that’s done they’d copy their access tokens to the bot users. We couldn’t use a CAPTCHA for every operation on the platform. But by requiring a real phone number that we verify (by placing a TTS phone call - not an SMS - as processing received TTS calls is mu…

I despise services that require to have a real phone number. Being locked out of something when you travel, have no reception, lost your phone or got it stollen is just a pain. Bonus hate points for banks that implement a sms code check for online payments with your visa/mastercard (common in France at least). I changed bank for one that provided me with a device generating one time codes from my CB

Goddamn Paypal MFA

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#397

Post by jeltz »

brabel wrote: post #371
defnotashton2 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh that's interesting because the lack of regulation and proper enforcement of said regulation of wet meat markets is what caused this in the first place.

Not if you believe the US government, which says that it actually came from a lab in China.

Which if true would also likely be due to lack of proper regulation and enforcement.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#398

Post by givinguflac »

brabel wrote: post #371
defnotashton2 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh that's interesting because the lack of regulation and proper enforcement of said regulation of wet meat markets is what caused this in the first place.

Not if you believe the US government, which says that it actually came from a lab in China.

The intelligence agencies have been clear there is no evidence of that. Do not confuse the US government’s position with the rantings of an old orange racist.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#399

Post by goatinaboat »

roenxi wrote: post #355
woutr_be wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I've spoken to this to my friends in China about this before, and I can understand that to them it's okay, they've seen their lives improve over the past 10 years. And I understand why they feel that way, they've never known anything else. But anyone coming from the Western world, and agreeing with what their government is doing in terms of censorship, that I can't understand.

China has a long cultural history of being relatively more wealthy than everyone else. But in absolute terms though they've just had a huge amount of technological progress dropped on them. Something like 3+ generations in of progress in Europe compressed into a fraction of a generation in China. And they look like they are regaining their traditional place as a world leading power. India will eventually show them ev…

I can see how an evidence-based person would conclude that China's government is working well

Indeed, in the 50’s and 60’s it seemed plausible that the economies of North Korea, Cuba, Russia, the DDR were all going to surpass their Western counterparts before long. The wheels started to come off in the 70’s and by the 90’s it was all over for them.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#400

Post by propogandist »

brabel wrote: post #371
defnotashton2 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh that's interesting because the lack of regulation and proper enforcement of said regulation of wet meat markets is what caused this in the first place.

Not if you believe the US government, which says that it actually came from a lab in China.

One of the few bio safety level 4 labs in the world, but it's not simple as pointing a finger at a lab alone.

The University of Wuhan and University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, have worked collaboratively on research on a SARS like novel coronavirus found in Chinese Horseshoe bats back in 2015 [1].

The research, as noted on the bottom of the report, was funded by grants from National Institute of Health (under Anthony Fauci's leadership), US AID Emerging Pandemic Threats program and other funding sources, including many US based researchers.

[1]- https://nature.com/articles/nm.3985

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