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Making Emacs Popular Again

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Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C-c is a chord (two keys pressed at once); C-c C-v is a chord progression (first one chord, then the other), more often referred as a sequence in this context.

Right you are. Using Emacs for 20 years and I still can't get to explain it to people properly.

That just proves OP’s point, imo.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#592

I've used emacs for maybe 18 months solid. I never found it had a single feature that my other editors didn't have (not saying it doesn't, just staying I didn't run into them). My other editors can be extended via scripts. My other editors (mostly) have keyboard macros, repeat, etc.. My other editors can be used efficiently keyboard only. My other editors debug various languages. My other editors open shells in the e…

Emacs will always be there for you.

Personally, I can't move because of the rich set of text editing commands. Some of it seems silly, like word transposition, or jumping over sexps. But with Emacs, it feels like it's just an extension of my mind, most of the time. I had the same feeling some time after I learned touch typing.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and while emacs has a reputation as being the ur-editor from which all text editing innovation stems, the reality is quite the opposite. It's stagnant and hasn't been the center of text editing innovation for at least the last decade, and probably quite a bit longer before that. It was a particularly bad string of basic package incompatibilities that woke me from my emacs evangelist phase, but it was the realiz…

Emacs is a gui app. You can have if you like a tool bar. A menu-bar, tabs, split windows. If you want something slightly more like a traditional gui emacs application framework enables bidirectional communication with QT applications running in emacs frames. Personally I use it to render HTML mail inside emacs with what amounts to embedded chrome.

Emacs is as much of an GUI-App as Window notepad is an editor. They both have the traits what justify to call them, but also are both on the absolute bottom-line in terms of ability.

The menubar is stuck in the 90s, the toolbar very very basic, even for the 90s. Window-Splitting is not even an GUI-feature and very basic. Only the tabs are somewhat modern, but also simple. COmpared to a modern GUI, emacs has barely anything that justify calling it GUI. Especially as most of those features are available in the terminal-version too AFAIK.

> If you want something slightly more like a traditional gui emacs application framework enables bidirectional communication with QT applications running in emacs frames.

Calling external apps doesn't make it a better GUI. And amount of connection between emacs and Qt is very limited. This is just a crutch to fill missing areas in emacs abilities.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#594
I see this "Emacs is terrible, my (insert currently hyped IDE/editor) is much better" mantra every few years. These days, it is VSCode, few years ago it was atom/pycharm/intellij, before that was anything on Eclipse platform... Yet, I need to see status of any these after 40 years.

Emacs is like a turtle - it isn't flashy and trendy, looks weird and old, but is still going steadily and strongly. And I bet you'll be able to run your configuration 10 years ago, for the next 20 years without any problems.

I'd say, if you don't like Emacs, use something else. Usually everyone returns back to either Emacs, Vi(m) or Sam at some point. True hackers will go to ed - ed is the standard text editor after all :)

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#595
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that everyone has to have a non-empty, non trivial .emacs file means it is maximally unsuitable - for everyone. The fact that you don't have one for VS Code shows that any modifications to make it better are too difficult and that you just have to make do with how it comes out of the box.

In reality, it is very easy in vscode. The difference is, that in vscode it is a easily readable json. Much, much! better than in both emacs and vim. Edit: downvoting doesn't change reality

So which is it: VS Code is maximally unsuited for everyone or the previous argument was nonsense?

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#596
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hear a lot about the declining popularity of Emacs, but I always wonder how much it is overstating the case. Google Trends certainly reports that emacs has experienced a dramatic decline in popularity since 2004. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=emacs

The Internet has experienced a similar dramatic decline in popularity. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=emacs,in...

Vim seems quite stable. VS Code is even rising.

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=emacs,vi...

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#597

New employee 1 workflow at company X: 1. Install VS Code 2. Click extensions and install language specific plugin 3. Work New employee 2 workflow at company X: 1. Install emacs 2. Try to install some source code indexing tool 3. Tool is missing 13 dependencies, so spend 4 hours finding, installing and configuring the dependencies. 4. Spend another couple hours reading non-existent to terrible documentation (documenta…

VS Code has its pros and I use it daily, but I have to spend quite a bit of time configuring a fresh install of it. Probably not as much as I would Emacs, had I used it, but it's not insignificant. And that includes changing the theme.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#598
post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that everyone has to have a non-empty, non trivial .emacs file means it is maximally unsuitable - for everyone. The fact that you don't have one for VS Code shows that any modifications to make it better are too difficult and that you just have to make do with how it comes out of the box.

In reality, it is very easy in vscode. The difference is, that in vscode it is a easily readable json. Much, much! better than in both emacs and vim. Edit: downvoting doesn't change reality

In Emacs it’s easily readable ELisp. Much, much better than JSON.

Well, more versatile, anyway.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#599

New employee 1 workflow at company X: 1. Install VS Code 2. Click extensions and install language specific plugin 3. Work New employee 2 workflow at company X: 1. Install emacs 2. Try to install some source code indexing tool 3. Tool is missing 13 dependencies, so spend 4 hours finding, installing and configuring the dependencies. 4. Spend another couple hours reading non-existent to terrible documentation (documenta…

This is being replaced by:

1. New employee is added to cloud access management. 2. New employe logs into AWS Code, Apache CHE or Githubs new web editor. 3. ??? 4. Beer.

Re: Making Emacs Popular Again

#600

I've used emacs for maybe 18 months solid. I never found it had a single feature that my other editors didn't have (not saying it doesn't, just staying I didn't run into them). My other editors can be extended via scripts. My other editors (mostly) have keyboard macros, repeat, etc.. My other editors can be used efficiently keyboard only. My other editors debug various languages. My other editors open shells in the e…

Emacs is not an editor, it is rapidly-programmable-at-runtime-evolvable software that is designed to: + Help you realize how _you_ best deal with information. + Help you manifest your realization through _rapidly_ molding Emacs into your conceived model. It is also the closest thing we have today to the Lisp Machine paradigm. I wrote this earlier today: You'll get the most out of Emacs if you treat it as an investmen…

Wow, and here I was using Emacs to edit (usually) text files.
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