We Chat, They Watch • Hacker News Board

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#361

Post by djyde » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:07 AM UTC

88840-8855 wrote: post #273

woutr_be wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use WeChat to talk to friends in China, (I live in HK) and I noticed that last year, especially when the protests were intense, many of my posts just didn't show up. These were mostly pictures unrelated to the protests. I had the sense that anything coming out of Hong Kong was just hidden by default.

lol, this is nothing new and nothing special. There are some words that just dont go through and messages dont arrive. I lived there and tried it with friends. You literally stand next to each other, some messages arrive, some dont. For me it is not a big deal - for most Chinese it is not a big deal. Somehow most people who never touched Wechat it seems to be a big deal.

I am a Chinese, and I care.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#362

Post by throwawaylolx » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:07 AM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #260

I worked for a company that tried to require wechat. I refused. Never got any flak, but missed a lot of comms from the first gen Chinese immigrants in the company. I posit they use WeChat more than just to censor/spy in wechat, but rather more as an one of a set of apps that can be used to side-channel leak data about the phone/user. (Israel is also the other giant player in this arena). I don't understand any tech-s…

> (Israel is also the other giant player in this arena)

Mind elaborating on this?

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#363

Post by throwawaylolx » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:08 AM UTC

pknerd wrote: post #359

throwawaylolx wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other apps don't have a policy to censor anti-government talk.

Are you sure?

Please feel free to provide examples of mainstream Western apps censoring criticisms of government.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#364

Post by pknerd » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

throwawaylolx wrote: post #363

pknerd wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure?

Please feel free to provide examples of mainstream Western apps censoring criticisms of government.

Facebook? Facebook was asked US government to censor/ban political things. Twitter removed Alex Jones for Coronavirus conspiracies, examples are various.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#365

Post by m4lvin » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

JCharante wrote: post #330

ascorbic wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why WeChat? Any other chat app will do the same, without being monitored by the Chnese government.

Really? Messenger can't. Whatsapp can't. Snapchat can't. Zalo can't. GroupMe can't (maybe I could create a solo group chatin it?. I don't remember telegram having it. At some point app fatigue sets in and you don't want to install even more apps. I'm not setting up a second account just to have something to send it to. Additionally the messages won't be available on my computer.

With conversations.im or other XMPP clients it is also possible to chat with yourself :-)

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#366

Post by hannofcart » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #99

dylan604 wrote: post #96

Regardless of what nationality an app is created under, in today's day and age, why is not just assumed that any website/app is not slurping in all of your data (usage, messages, location, wifi name, etc)? To me, all apps are guilty until proven innocent.

What is the incentive for any app to do the right thing then? It seems to me that coloring all apps the same regardless means that all apps may as well just do exactly as you describe... Anyone who doesn't isn't thought of as any better...

> What is the incentive for any app to do the right thing then?

Presumably, doing the right thing (TM) becomes their USP?

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#367

Post by throwawaylolx » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:18 AM UTC

system2 wrote: post #255

xf1cf wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the pro-chinese propaganda on this site alone. The number of people supporting Zoom, WHO, WeChat, etc is enough to conclude with near certainty this site as well is owned by the Chinese. Unfortunately this comment and mine will be downvoted to oblivion. But the truth is the Chinese war doctrine is to purchase land and acquire covenants. Look at Africa, Indonesia, and India. They are bought wholesale by Ch…

Downvotes don't mean censorship. You clearly made your point with complete freedom of speech. Agreeing with you is another thing.

What's censorship and what is not seems to always change depending on convenience https://i.imgur.com/xTCKWNM.jpg

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#368

Post by 101404 » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:21 AM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #341

idra wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as "the law" in China. You may be imprisoned or disappeared if you didn't do anything to circumvent "the law", there are always undisclosed "relevant rules and regulations" ready to be unleashed. You can also carry out brazen illegal activities as long as you are well-connected (until you start stepping on toes of someone more well-connected than you). So what if email is insecure, neither is W…

It's easy to point to examples of all those things in the US. Both countries still have laws.

You are wrong.

There is a big difference between countries with independent judicial systems, and China where judges are below the local party secretary.

Chinese laws are decoration. What actually counts is what the party decides.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#369

Post by throwawaylolx » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

pknerd wrote: post #364

throwawaylolx wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please feel free to provide examples of mainstream Western apps censoring criticisms of government.

Facebook? Facebook was asked US government to censor/ban political things. Twitter removed Alex Jones for Coronavirus conspiracies, examples are various.

I believe you're right--that's not so different to what WeChat is doing.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#370

Post by coldtea » Fri, May 08, 2020, 10:31 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #355

woutr_be wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I've spoken to this to my friends in China about this before, and I can understand that to them it's okay, they've seen their lives improve over the past 10 years. And I understand why they feel that way, they've never known anything else. But anyone coming from the Western world, and agreeing with what their government is doing in terms of censorship, that I can't understand.

China has a long cultural history of being relatively more wealthy than everyone else. But in absolute terms though they've just had a huge amount of technological progress dropped on them. Something like 3+ generations in of progress in Europe compressed into a fraction of a generation in China. And they look like they are regaining their traditional place as a world leading power. India will eventually show them ev…

>India will eventually show them eventually up as having an inferior political model but on balance

I doubt it. If anything India's system is less effective, equally or more corrupt, and downright barbarous in some social aspects (e.g. castes). Plus the rampant inequality which is much worse than China.