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The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

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211–220 of 317 posts

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " Free food was part of benefits " The Red Cross is a civilian organization that is not part of the army and was not, as far as I know, obligated to provide free donuts or coffee.

Army asked for it, anyway politics are irrelevant to feelings. Pay was $50 a month, doughnut was 2 cents, that is like 1% paycut.

Think of a random cafe offering complementary free donuts to veterans, and then deciding (or being told) to start charging for them. The Red Cross was not a perk provided and paid for by the army. It's really not that outrageous.

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#212
post #6

>The problem isn't the price Price was absolutely the problem. Soldiers were paid about $600 year. Not much for a job where you risk your life and dont have much of personal freedom or comfort. Free food was part of benefits. Charging soldiers for it seems ludicrous, they can not just leave, and go to nearest cafe.

The US Army leadership asked the Red Cross to start charging. The problem was the Red Cross was only giving free donuts to US soldiers, and this was causing the other nations' soliders fighting on the Allied side to be upset. Apparently their civilian population wasn't as generous as the US supports of the Red Cross. So getting rid of the free donuts was to avoid "dissension in the ranks".

Why couldn't the Red Cross just give free Doughnuts to everyone? I'm not sure; maybe because they collected the money for "support our troops", and supporting the Brits might have been considered a violation of the terms for which the monies were donated.

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#213
post #119
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an SE/SO professional, can I rant here for a moment? Marketing and Product rag on Sales a lot for discounting. Nevermind the fact that we own the touchpoints with an account, so it only makes sense that we'd know what any individual account needs. I've had this issue with Marketing and Product professionals since I started in Sales, and even more-so when I took over Sales Enablement and Sales Ops. For one, prici…

I've been on both sides so I understand your perspective. Everyone wants to sell on _value_ and in an ideal world you could go up the food chain and say, "hey, if we spend $10,000 on this, we save $100,000 in employee hours". That should be the easiest decision in the world, especially if you could come back in a year and figure out it was really $105,000. However budgeting in just about any organization I've been in…

> "in an ideal world you could go up the food chain and say, "hey, if we spend $10,000 on this, we save $100,000 in employee hours". That should be the easiest decision in the world, especially if you could come back in a year and figure out it was really $105,000."

In an ideal world, yes. In the average large organization in the real world, though, very few people care about "saving employee hours". Particularly in middle management.

When a team's workload falls by 50%, there's rarely a magical stream of "useful work" that arises to replace it with. More likely, the team just sits around twiddling their thumbs; you either need to fire them, or concoct some busy work for them (defeating the point of the exercise in the first place).

Middle management are never going to gut their own team, because their headcount is what justifies their own position. This is also why your organization never has the budget for $10,000 - any money defaults to headcount, because headcount entrenches managerial authority.

Unless you're selling to C-suite (and can quantify the headcount reduction), "saving employee hours" is a terrible sales proposition for large enterprises.

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#214

Pricing things can be strange. Back in the old Zortech days, we included full library source for free with the compiler. Library source wasn't even available for other compilers. Nobody particularly cared that we did that, and it was never mentioned in compiler reviews in the press. One day, Borland decided to package partial (not including floating point) library source for their compiler as a separate product. The…

Oh wow, Zortech. I learned C in seventh grade on an ancient 486DX2 with the Zortech compiler (from a bunch of floppies which I got from the father of a kid in my carpool). Hacking analog clocks with the Zortech graphics library, writing my own linked list hash table for a color-coded version of “dir”...

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite curious why business plans themselves are not generally subject to a/b testing....

Well, it would be like splitting a company into two parts competing with each other. And wouldn't necessarily determine which plan is better - maybe plan A is better on its own but was undercut by competition from plan B?

Stores do a/b testing all the time, just by varying the products they carry.

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#216
post #57

I can call out one example of a poorly executed price raise: Apollo Engine ( https://www.apollographql.com/pricing ) There was a time when they charged for data points/performance traces ingested into the system. At our scale, we were paying around $100/month. We were prepared to scale that to their, I think it was, $550/month plan when our usage got that high. They relatively recently changed their structure to char…

Did you ever reach out to the Apollo team to express this concern?

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A looong time ago I worked at a comic book store and the owner had a table of freebies at the front of the store. The distributors were always sending marketing material with cool artwork, so instead of throwing it in the trash when it piled up, he figured why not give it away? No one touched it. Then he started packaging it into $5 “grab bags”. That crap was gone in a week. The lesson? “You can’t give shit away, but…

Not being able to see the contents, customers probably assumed there was something more valuable in there than promotional items. I doubt many of them bought more than one grab bag. I think Diamond (the distributor) frowns on stores selling items that were meant to be given away for free. To be honest, the owner doesn’t sound like the most reputable guy.

Iirc there was always at least one old comic in these grab bags, and this was 30+ years ago so it was silver age, and the bags were transparent. I just thought it was a cool story, have mercy internet stranger! This person was around 23, spent his inheritance buying the store from a WW 2 vet and was out of business within a year.

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#218
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In behavioral economics that’s sometimes referred to as “social norms versus market norms” [first useful link, 1]. The example given (I think it’s via Ariely) is that you wouldn’t pay your friend to have cooked you dinner. This is the same thing: there’s social contract value in helping your friend out, and they’re showing appreciation with a token . In fact, if you friend offers you more money than the pizza and bee…

Interesting comment! I have this relatively unconventional theory that, if we use automation just right and make the cost of food production, delivery, and preparation low enough, and also do so where ownership of the machinery is distributed throughout society, that we could make it a social norm to give anyone who needs it free food. All in a voluntary system. We just need to make the actual cost of the whole suppl…

So kind of like how a bar has a bowl of nuts or pretzels out for free.

Or, at work, I bought a pastry from the cafeteria. About 5 minutes later they put out a whole platter of the same pastries in the dining area for free (they didn't sell, and would be dumped otherwise).

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#219
post #95

If you have a service where the free deal was too good to be true, then it works. I am not salty at the New York Times. I pay for the subscription and it is well worth it. Also, now I want a coffee and a doughnut, goddamn it. Is Dunkin still open in quarantine?

They’re open and oddly enough they’re currently doing a “Free Donut Friday” promotion...

Re: The Cost of Free Doughnuts: 70 Years of Regret

#220
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on both sides so I understand your perspective. Everyone wants to sell on _value_ and in an ideal world you could go up the food chain and say, "hey, if we spend $10,000 on this, we save $100,000 in employee hours". That should be the easiest decision in the world, especially if you could come back in a year and figure out it was really $105,000. However budgeting in just about any organization I've been in…

> "in an ideal world you could go up the food chain and say, "hey, if we spend $10,000 on this, we save $100,000 in employee hours". That should be the easiest decision in the world, especially if you could come back in a year and figure out it was really $105,000." In an ideal world, yes. In the average large organization in the real world, though, very few people care about "saving employee hours". Particularly in…

> When a team's workload falls by 50%, there's rarely a magical stream of "useful work" that arises to replace it with.

Yes, there is. It's known as "addressing technical debt".

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