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Zoom Acquires Keybase

keybase.io

541–550 of 751 posts

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the original claim was "100% of the dev team is in China", and the reality is "only 80% of the dev team is in China", then that'd be a 20% factual error, mathematically speaking.

Or would it be a 25% error, i think it would make most sense to calculate the error-difference in relation to the actual value instead of in relation to the erroneous value.

Good point.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#542
post #497
post #44

Keybase's side of the announcement: https://keybase.io/blog/keybase-joins-zoom > What the Keybase team will be doing > Initially, our single top priority is helping to make Zoom even more secure. There are no specific plans for the Keybase app yet. Ultimately Keybase's future is in Zoom's hands, and we'll see where that takes us. Of course, if anything changes about Keybase’s availability, our users will get plenty o…

(We've since changed the URL from https://blog.zoom.us/wordpress/2020/05/07/zoom-acquires-keyb... to that one)

Hi dang, are there any plans to introduce a marker of some sort so that people know whether the current URL is the same as the one it was submitted with? I find that often I have no idea what the comments are talking about

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-1970 or so. Before Milton Friedman, there was a general sense that companies existed to fulfill some mission, with profit as a means. The CEO of Kellogg commented on this in an interview ca. 1980, that money for a business is like a gasoline for a road trip. You need it to get where you're going, but the point of a road trip is not to accumulate as much gasoline as possible.

Is this a joke? The bulk of the labor movement happened before 1970, and it was not because workers were so well-treated and well-compensated that they had a lot of free time on their hands. I'm a big fan of business and entrepreneurship, but let's be clear here: there is a reason we invented government. There was never a time when we could 100% count on the beneficence of business leaders to advance social goals. Ed…

Of course, there have always been bad businesses. The difference between pre-1970 and now, is that we've not only socially legitimized the maximization of profit, we've also all but legally mandated it. Now even "decent" business leaders like the CEO of Costco have to continually answer to their shareholders as to why they're not lowering wages and reducing benefit--and in Costco's case, the shareholders may try to take legal action to force them to lower costs, even though Costco the business is already quite profitable. Due to lack of labor regulation and the mantra that "business are required to maximize shareholder value", Costco's decency is fully dependent on its CEO's (unusual) fortitude to fend off those shareholder demands. When its leadership changes, its ability to care for its employees will likely revert to the mean, which as we see in today's environment is abysmal.

So really, it's not that "there are some bad actors", but that "the system strongly encourages businesses to install these so-called bad actors as their leaders". I agree with you, that we need strong government labor regulations to counter this mentality, but this mentality is why these regulations have deteriorated over the past 50 years.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#545
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that we live in an era where if you made bad decisions in the past, you can never be trusted to make good decisions ever again. Even if you own your bad decisions and show lots of improvement. Nope. Once a pariah, always a pariah.

Really? Why is everyone using FB, google?

Why is everyone using sugar and heroin?

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they be so obvlivious though? Their own blog post doesn't even mention the tarnished reputation Zoom has acquired lately. A lot of people will stop developing integrations for Keybase because of this. It's sad.

They aren’t. They are making a lot of money which is what the business was made for. The post is actually refreshingly honest that keybase is now abandoned and will probably die at some point. The idea that companies were stupid enough to place their internal identity on some random 3rd party is so incredibly stupid that it’s hard to feel too bad for anyone. Congrats Keybase!

Unless I imagined it, they previously said publicly that they were unlikely to pursue a sell like this because they had succeeded at previous companies and cared more about the impact this product could make than the profit they could make from selling it. I based my decision to agree to the terms of Keybase around this statement which I can conveniently no longer find. I suspect it was in one of their airdrop announcements, and conveniently those links don't work in the Wayback Machine.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Matrix is properly end-to-end encrypted (with all keys generated clientside) and has been independently audited as such: https://www.nccgroup.trust/us/our-research/matrix-olm-crypto... . We have gone to huge efforts to prevent MITMs via device verification and cross signing - which specifically addresses both problems of a) losing chat history when you move between devices (via https://github.com/uhoreg/matrix-d…

Just to confirm, if I turn off backup, does anything stop working aside from needing at least one device to be operational at any given time? Edit: Specifically, is key backup tied to the ability to recover account history on a new device, or can I still get that with key backup disabled as long as I have at least one other device active? Edit 2: Can you address this paragraph: > One point for super-paranoid users: c…

If you turn off message key backup, all it means is that if you lose all your devices (and thus your keys), you will lose your history. Otherwise, if you have at least one device active on your account, it will receive your message keys and gossip them (if needed) with your other devices. You can always do a manual offline backup too for safekeeping as a workaround.

> If I understand correctly, sounds like security is based on the complexity of your recovery passphrase and an implicit assumption that the passphrase doesn't get transmitted to the server... is that correct?

If you use cross-signing, then yes - your signing keys are stored protected by the recovery passphrase on the server. We also support gossiping them between devices (same as message keys), and there's no reason for them to have to persist on the server. We just need to hook up the UI to expose that as an option and we ran out of time to do that before shipping the initial release. It will follow shortly.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#548
post #78

Honest question, why does Zoom’s security reputation matter more than Keybase’s? There’s so much pessimism in here but I really don't get it. I disliked zoom long before any of the security issues because frankly it’s rough, unpolished, software that’s never really worked well for me. I, for one, would be excited to get a functional Zoom with better security integrated into Keybase as an option for UI so that you hav…

> Honest question, why does Zoom’s security reputation matter more than Keybase’s?

Because Zoom is the buyer and they have the power. Sellers can make whatever promises they like (see: Whatsapp, Instagram) and it is reasonable to assume the buyer will have their way in the end.

Zoom will certainly use Keybase to improve their security overall. However, the rather obvious lack of commitment to existing users means there likely won't be any longterm.

My prediction: Zoom integrates well with keybase, there's a blog post that keybase is shutting down external services in a few months, the keybase founders leave and 1-2 years later, we hear of a new company they've founded.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#549
post #180
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this an acquihire then?

If so, it would be in the unusual shape that it is a top-dollar one rather than cover-the-failure-with-a-pretty-ending one. But in this case, Zoom is probably actually interested in the security tech that Keybase has apart from the talent, they're just not interested in the product.

did i miss something? how do you know its top-dollar? no dollar amount was disclosed.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#550

For years people have been begging Keybase to allow them to pay them for the service and Chris Coyne always refused. Now they've lost their independence and they're owned by a communication company that has [edit: the majority of] its dev team in China. I use Keybase to talk to my friend in China since it's one of the few services they don't block. This is a pretty disappointing outcome.

Losing their independence was from the beginning the most likely outcome of building something that's hard to monetize like Keybase on the VC funding model. FWIW, I doubt Keybase offering a paid plan would have raised revenue that's significant compared to their burn, so Chris was probably right to not spend resources figuring out a paid offering. For raising their next round, having $5K in revenue from a paid plan f…

How much power do the VCs typically have?

Don't founders often have the ability to overrule and make their own decisions?

Chris is already financially independent from the OKCupid sale, he could have open sourced the server code and/or reduced the overall burn to pivot to paid accounts.

Though the weird Stellar wallet addition implied some vision/product issues anyway.

Of course it's easy and probably unfair for me to say these things as an outsider with limited information and no real stake, it's definitely possible I'm wrong about important details that would change my mind. It'd be interesting to hear from Chris, but the sale probably restricts public communication?

This reminds me a little about the OKC sale actually, they had a blog post about why charging for dating sites made them worse that they took down after selling to match (they used to do cool analysis and publish them as blog posts, most of the details ended up in the book a different cofounder published called Dataclysm). That's more understandable to me though since I think it was their first exit.

Reading about Zulip - didn't you get bought by Dropbox before being open source? Is your current situation a lucky outcome - or was it a condition of the sale?

[Edit] - To clarify since there are downvotes, my questions aren’t rhetorical - they’re genuinely asking.

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