Live data from Hacker News

Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

bbc.com

211–220 of 383 posts

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be rented?

Exorbitant HOA/Condo Association fees and regulations that make renting out a condo unfeasible, or outright banned.

Cool. So then people who buy condos for investment will have to choose between paying the non-occupancy tax or putting their money in property that isn't encumbered by those regulations. Accordingly the price of condos in buildings with such regulations should fall.

Alternatively, if a city council has the votes to implement a non-occupancy tax, they may have the votes to nullify HOA clauses that forbid renting. Or levy additional taxes on such HOAs. Since it's the HOA that's forbidding renting, the HOA should foot the bill for the non-occupancy tax, not the owner of the unit.

It's fairly common to include HOA dues and fees in the rent when renting out a condo.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, destroying luxury condos and not replacing them with anything will not help. But the housing market is more complicated that straightforward supply and demand, with a lot of second and third order effects, and in the end building incredible amounts of luxury condos has done nothing for rent prices and housing availability in Toronto, or in Montreal where I live.

This is a naive take. Building luxury condos has definitely caused prices to drop, it's just that the effect of increased demand increased prices by more. Without the supply increase housing would be even more expensive.

I honestly don't believe this is the case. There is no empirical reason to believe it is the case, and there is research that suggests that it isn't the case [0]

[0] : http://econ.geo.uu.nl/peeg/peeg1914.pdf

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#213

I know there's gonna be a lot of people here that are happy about this for various reasons (anti-Google, anti-"smart cities", etc), but this is really disappointing for me. It's true that the concept of "cities" (or even just "gatherings of people") predates the Internet by thousands of years, and that cities themselves haven't adapted much to the Internet and what it enables in the 40ish years it's been around. This…

I'd like us to be more forward looking, ambitious and experimental with our cities as well, especially in the west.

But... I think there's an institutional aspect here that needs resolution before we can. The internet is worryingly centralised. A small number of extremely profitable companies monopolise huge markets. Google tends to do this with data.

I think the reticence was justified: "Who owns the data? What kind of monopoly are google eventually going to have?" These are fair. A financial success case for google is some sort of data-centric monopoly. They don't really do business another way. It's fair to be dubious of their endgame.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#214
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much have you read on the exploitative history of company towns[0]? There are some really good reasons why people are skeptical of a private company coming in and trying to reshape the foundation of a community, particularly when that company happens to be Google. Sure, there's something idyllic about the vision of a community driven by technology as a first-class citizen, but let's be real here: Google doesn't e…

Your questions are valid. But you could pick holes about any party trying to bring about change, right? For example, you say "let's be real here: Google doesn't exist to make the world a better place"...my question to you is, which org does exist purely to make the world a better place? And moreover, how are those orgs doing in terms of impact and scale?

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say maybe privately owned capital explains why most orgs fail to do good.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#215
post #209

Google HQ never seemed to have to much to do with this. It was rather their subsidiary Sidewalk Labs that was going to make it happen. They always struck me as long on "vision" and short on execution.

I am a very optimistic individual, and have considered this project as vapourware since day one. All vision and posturing, and no execution over years.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#216

I know there's gonna be a lot of people here that are happy about this for various reasons (anti-Google, anti-"smart cities", etc), but this is really disappointing for me. It's true that the concept of "cities" (or even just "gatherings of people") predates the Internet by thousands of years, and that cities themselves haven't adapted much to the Internet and what it enables in the 40ish years it's been around. This…

If the whole thing is designed to be transparent from the get go you wouldn't have to worry about data leaks.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider low density? I really don't like the idea of stamping out all single family homes and nice green areas in proximity to cities. Mixing high density in with commercial areas seems fine though.

Why don't you like stamping out single family homes? What is the benefit/cost ratio of 2-3 story houses vs 10 story housing vs 20 vs 30 vs 40? Houses are for families with kids right? What do kids want? Kids want other kids to play with. Kids want to attend classes and learn stuff. The more options a kid has, the better. Which area has more kids and therefore classes: low, medium or high density areas? I understand t…

some benefits off the top of my head:

-More natural settings shown to improve mental health

-"neighborliness" scales inversely with density to a point - less neighbors means you're more likely to get to know them, while with more people there are too many so the crowd of people gets depersonalized to a degree, because 50 neighbors are too many to keep track of.

-you don't have to go to some crowded city park full of garbage when friends have yards with their own stuff like sandboxes where they can have some privacy from for example sheltered city people or park cops freaking out over the kids having nerf guns

-other activities become more feasible like bike riding (I wouldn't feel good letting a kod bike around NYC), ATV's, fishing

-more outdoors setting prevents aesthma

-safer setting for the kids overall

Your concerns just don't work oout that way in my experience. I was in single-home-only towns as a kid and there was no problem playing with neighbors or anything. Even when houses are a mile apart it's really not a big deal just being driven to them.

And since when do kids want to attend classes?

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious: what problem could be solved by a human (or group of humans) but not a computer (or group of computers)?

Whether an arbitrary program will end.

Haha I know this wasn't intended as a joke, but this answer made me burst out laughing. Very true!

On the other hand, that's not such an easy problem for humans to solve either

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#219
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much have you read on the exploitative history of company towns[0]? There are some really good reasons why people are skeptical of a private company coming in and trying to reshape the foundation of a community, particularly when that company happens to be Google. Sure, there's something idyllic about the vision of a community driven by technology as a first-class citizen, but let's be real here: Google doesn't e…

Your questions are valid. But you could pick holes about any party trying to bring about change, right? For example, you say "let's be real here: Google doesn't exist to make the world a better place"...my question to you is, which org does exist purely to make the world a better place? And moreover, how are those orgs doing in terms of impact and scale?

> which org does exist purely to make the world a better place?

I think the idea that one organization existing to make the entire world a better place is utopian, but governments are much better equipped to bring positive change than private companies are because citizens are the direct beneficiaries of government resources. For example, a municipal government’s purpose is to administer public services, and a municipal government answers to its citizens. A private company, on the other hand, has a fiscal duty to its shareholders.

I’m not arguing that any organization is perfect because such an organization does not exist, and that’s true for companies and governments.

> how are those orgs doing in terms of impact and scale?

Let’s use various governments response to the coronavirus outbreak as an example. The US government opted to defer much of it’s responsibility to private companies and state governments, which has resulted in less testing, less access to PPE, and more reported deaths than any other country. Testing hasn’t scaled, and there have been numerous reports of corruption and interference in the medical community, some of which was alleged to have come directly from the White House.

Contrast that response with countries like Taiwan, who moved quickly to provide necessary resources and communicate effectively to mitigate the transmission of the virus.

The US has operated one of the most private-industry focused responses to this outbreak, and we’re likely to see 3k deaths per day by June. That’s a 9/11 death toll every single day.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a super simplistic perspective. Property developers are probably going to preferentially build high-margin housing, right? And they’re going to preferentially build those at a rate that doesn’t meet demand, in order to keep prices high. So what’s missing?

> super simplistic The law of gravity is super simple, but it produces all kinds of complex results. Underlying the complex behavior of the real estate market is supply&demand driving it.

You’re disregarding the site guidelines here.

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Are you interested in address the core of my argument, or only those two words in isolation?

Post reply on HN