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Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

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141–150 of 383 posts

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is for people to understand how to choose better for themselves. Not a technology patch. Google only has one hammer: the algorithm. It just comes in different colors. Traffic? Waymo algorithm. Municipal planning? Smart Cities algorithm. Advertising? AdSense algorithm. Journalism? Google News algorithm. Google, and certain other tech companies, need to learn that not every problem can be solved by a compu…

Curious: what problem could be solved by a human (or group of humans) but not a computer (or group of computers)?

My half-serious reply: Figuring out what the problem is :)

“Computers are useless, they can only give you answers”

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#142

Google doesn't need to invest in the gadgets and electronics in the walls that appear to make cities smarter. That money would be better spent on enabling city governments, elected policymakers, and especially their constituents to be smarter and able to make better choices and designs about city planning, building permits, incentives, taxation, traffic, etc better. The rest will follow. What we need is for people to…

What we need is for people to understand how to choose better for themselves. Not a technology patch. Google only has one hammer: the algorithm. It just comes in different colors. Traffic? Waymo algorithm. Municipal planning? Smart Cities algorithm. Advertising? AdSense algorithm. Journalism? Google News algorithm. Google, and certain other tech companies, need to learn that not every problem can be solved by a compu…

Scalability? Data center algorithm! Security? The fuzzing algorithm! Healthcare? The medical algorithm! Mobile? The Android algorithm! Gaming? The Stadia algorithm!

No that's utterly absurd. What Google builds are platforms, markets and generally scalable systems. They involve algorithms and algorithms may more often than not be their competitive edge but an algorithm does not a system make.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is for people to understand how to choose better for themselves. Not a technology patch. Google only has one hammer: the algorithm. It just comes in different colors. Traffic? Waymo algorithm. Municipal planning? Smart Cities algorithm. Advertising? AdSense algorithm. Journalism? Google News algorithm. Google, and certain other tech companies, need to learn that not every problem can be solved by a compu…

Curious: what problem could be solved by a human (or group of humans) but not a computer (or group of computers)?

Any problem where the solution requires persuading people to adopt it or comply with it.

All those projects google shuts down? Those were problems they tried to solve but failed to.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is for people to understand how to choose better for themselves. Not a technology patch. Google only has one hammer: the algorithm. It just comes in different colors. Traffic? Waymo algorithm. Municipal planning? Smart Cities algorithm. Advertising? AdSense algorithm. Journalism? Google News algorithm. Google, and certain other tech companies, need to learn that not every problem can be solved by a compu…

Curious: what problem could be solved by a human (or group of humans) but not a computer (or group of computers)?

Inequity, education, sustainability, public policy, governance - few examples where techno-solutionism isn't the right approach.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#145
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Fiber was a major success that got ousted by the incumbents with never ending lawsuits and resistance. Take your anger out on the monopoly ISPs across the country.

This is untrue. Talk to Louisville, where Google put trenches in the roadways, loosely covered them up with foam, letting the average snowplow rip up their network. Fiber used real cities as experiment grounds, and ended up with at least one solution so bad they left the city rather than fix it, and had to settle with the city for all the damages to their roadways. Pictures: https://www.wdrb.com/news/google-fiber-ann…

> Talk to Louisville, where Google put trenches in the roadways

Yes, Louisville was indeed a failure. They tried something different to help speed up laying out lines, and it didn't work. All that is not really relevant to the comment above, which still is true regardless of the issue in Louisville.

> Ignore the title, Google decided not to repair anything

That's misleading, they decided to instead pay the city for the repairs instead of doing it themselves.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/04/googl...

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#146
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…

I understand "high density" to mean condo neighbourhoods. I understand medium density to mean mid-rise, walk-ups, or town houses. The situation in Toronto is (and has been for some time) a stark contrast between low-density neighbourhoods of houses & small duplexes/triplexes, and high-density pockets of high-rise condos. This is bad for all the usual reasons of neighbourhood segregation.

I absolutely agree. Toronto has either single family homes (low density) or high rise condos (high density), but the medium density part is absolutely missing and it has a pretty negative effect on Toronto, I feel.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just tax empty places, isn't that what Vancouver does? Leaving a place empty/inhabited should be very expensive.

There's already property tax

That's different from the Empty Home Tax: https://vancouver.ca/your-government/vacancy-tax-bylaw.aspx

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or international investors buy them up as an asset store or to launder money, leaving them mostly vacant. We unfortunately live in the real world, not an economist’s toy box, and have the example of Vancouver to prove it.

Isn't that a separate problem which Vancouver is already trying to fix by occupancy rules?

Vancouver is fixing the problem that the parent said is the solution - build a bunch of luxury stock to solve your housing crisis. It doesn’t work out that way in reality, which is what they’re now addressing.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#149
post #39

Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.

What do you consider low density? I really don't like the idea of stamping out all single family homes and nice green areas in proximity to cities. Mixing high density in with commercial areas seems fine though.

Why don't you like stamping out single family homes?

What is the benefit/cost ratio of 2-3 story houses vs 10 story housing vs 20 vs 30 vs 40?

Houses are for families with kids right? What do kids want? Kids want other kids to play with. Kids want to attend classes and learn stuff. The more options a kid has, the better.

Which area has more kids and therefore classes: low, medium or high density areas?

I understand that there is a trade-off where we don't want 100-story skyscrapers but to me, single family homes are an infrastructure luxury that hasn't been thought through and something we'd benefit from re-considering and re-educating people about.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#150
post #69

Does this count for the Google Graveyard? I'm still waiting for that miraculous Google Fiber to come rolling in here. I am wondering precisely how projects get the green light at Google. This kind of thing is just ... it's like someone read some shiny-eyed sci-fi story from the 1950s and decided to Brave New World it into being with metrics without asking if anyone would find it objectionable or even desirable.

Google Fiber was a major success that got ousted by the incumbents with never ending lawsuits and resistance. Take your anger out on the monopoly ISPs across the country.

I am not angry about Google Fiber, I'm disappointed.

This project reminds me of Google Fiber in that it had a kind of optimism backed by a tremendous amount of capital, both in cash and in goodwill. For fiber, of course I knew about the incumbents. The 1990s were an enormous giveaway to the telecommunications industry in terms of tax breaks in exchange for a nebulous set of promises and, as far as I can tell, no teeth -- what penalties for failure to deliver? They took the money and devoted it to lobbying and eventually as much regulatory capture as they could manage.

We knew going in that it would be tough. And of course infrastructure, physical infrastructure, is tough. You have legal requirements, like permits and easements. You have the "merely" physical task of digging all of these trenches, mile upon mile. You have an huge outlay of equipment, from ordering to configuration and maintenance. You have the relentless horror of the last mile. Most importantly, the competition wouldn't like it. Not one bit. They even spoke of it. I don't think anyone didn't know this going in, but the promise was that Google could and would deliver results because they knew all of this beforehand.

Somehow, despite all of that, it didn't work out, but they were very certain at the time it would. They even managed to convince me and I come with a fairly dour outlook on these kinds of pitches.

This has much the same smell as did Google Fiber. This I can be a little annoyed at because it sounds as if lessons were not learned.

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