Enjoy the HN cynicism from July 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17487838
Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
41–50 of 383 posts
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can still advocate for such urban redevelopment and community planning without Big Tech behind it.
You can but change is measured in decades and even then often doesn't happen. Starting "fresh" with a single leading implementer is really how it needs to be done. Take San Francisco. There's the planning board, the planning department, environmental lawsuits, HOAs, abusing "historic landmarks" designations, political showmanship, developers, affordable housing, community meetings, unions, community groups (the cycli…
San Francisco has changed immensely in just the last decade.
It may not be noticeable if you live there because you only see the incremental day by day changes, but as someone who only sporadically visits the Bay Area: it's nothing like it was in 2010. It's significantly more built up (and out), more skyscrapers, more apartments, more condos, more everything.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#43The backlash against this is pretty ridiculous. Despite the dystopian rhetoric, in reality it was a small project of 12 acres that would have held a few condos. By comparison CityPlace is 44 acres and was also done by one company. So shat do people imagine will happen now? Instead of trying something new and interesting on a small scale, that same land will be given to another generic developer (Concord/Tridel/whatev…
>that same land will be given to another generic developer (Concord/Tridel/whatever) and they'll just do more of same
Pre-COVID I'd likely agree with you, however due the new realities of COVID I believe the future of cities has drastically changed.
I personally don't believe Toronto will recover from COVID to anywhere near the state it held at the end of 2019 and therefore further expansion/housing/real estate development will likely look drastically different.
>Toronto is a fairly conservative place, so it makes sense.
Compared with where? And why would you believe that to be the case?
My own interpretation, having lived there for years, is that the appetite for further infrastructure development has been strangled from Torontonians via very high costs of living, low wages compared to similar cities and high direct & indirect taxes.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#44$50M and two years later - where are the conclusions? The results? A blog post of what happened? Two years seems like enough time to say we tried some amazing things and this is how it did or did not work.
Two years is nothing when it comes with planning and development in the US, unfortunately. A little anecdote, here in Cincinnati I was peripherally involved with a local nonprofit taking over management of an abandoned bit of city part to build new multi-use trails. It took 20 years for the park board to even listen, then once an agreement was reached it took another /year and a half/ to get the paperwork to the poin…
local nonprofit taking over management of an abandoned bit of city
This is why it took a long time. The city was handing over management over part of itself in perpetuity. That needs to be done with care and deliberation.
Moreover, there are liability issues related to third parties making alterations to city lands that could result in ruinous liability to the city if citizens get injured on the altered lands and the city didn't fully inspect the alterations.
You also have potential drainage and soil issues to deal with, which need to be reviewed by geologists. And that's not getting into environmental reviews if there are at-risk species dwelling in that park.
All of those things take time. Programmers always complain about their customers wanting X in a few weeks when it really takes months.
So why are programmers always complaining that it takes engineers, geologists, architects, and city planners months to do their jobs? Unlike programming, the stuff these professionals are doing/reviewing can't just be fixed with a patch.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#45Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.
But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible).
But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pretty disingenuous. There were ideas for greener construction methods using more timber and less concrete, more space optimized for walking and biking instead of cars, interesting communal space arrangements to make spaces that can be heated in winter and converted to outdoor space when the weather is nice. There will always be some haters, but IMO all of these things would be amazing quality of life improvements in the majority of North American cities.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#46Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.
But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…
Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#47Enjoy the HN cynicism from July 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17487838
Such nonsense! Everyone loves the idea of pie-in-the-sky dreams.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…
Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.
Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities.
What the alternative? It's either single family home or condominiums (apartments).
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
But... condo neighborhoods are exactly that medium density housing. Every city does need more condos in their existing neighborhoods if populations are able to grow. (Unless Covid-19 will reshape the trajectory of urbanization, and major cities will mostly shrink for the next several decades. That actually seems somewhat plausible). But writing off all the sidewalk labs ideas as gimmicky smartphone integrations is pr…
Condos are too expensive in general to fulfill the needs of most cities. In general construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind of condos Google was undoubtedly looking at, which are absolutely not what cities need right now. We need affordable housing.
> construction of new condos is focused on the luxury kind
Supply is supply. Harlem is largely former luxury units.
Anecdotally, the luxury building opening down the street let me negotiate down my rent. It sucked the highest earners out of my building (and renter pool), which reduced my landlord's leverage. And it let me compare perks (e.g. included gym offsetting a membership), which increased mine. End result was a modest rent reduction.
Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto
#50Does this count for the Google Graveyard? I'm still waiting for that miraculous Google Fiber to come rolling in here.
I am wondering precisely how projects get the green light at Google. This kind of thing is just ... it's like someone read some shiny-eyed sci-fi story from the 1950s and decided to Brave New World it into being with metrics without asking if anyone would find it objectionable or even desirable.