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Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

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Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#31

Post by OrangeMango »

leoh wrote: post #24
pupppet wrote: post #17

TO dodged a bullet. It's Google's nature to lose interest and abandon their products. You think it's bad with software, imagine them building part of your city.

The cynicism here boggles the mind. You can talk blue in the face about all the products they haven't killed that power the world and people will just shake their heads in dismay and walk away muttering about Google Reader.

Categorize Google's products into two buckets - "home grown" and "bought the company". Then it starts to make a lot more sense.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#32

Post by eddyionescu »

AIME15 wrote: post #26

The scope-limiting to 12 acres announced on October 31 was perceived as a win for the regulators, giving them more control over the project over time. At that point the project timeline became untenable for SWL's plans but couldn't back out due to PR concerns for Alphabet. The pandemic is a convenient excuse for the company to abandon the Quayside project. For the last three years SWL has bent over backwards to be tr…

The 12-acres (just Quayside) was what Toronto's RFP asked for in the first place and Sidewalk Labs won out for (https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2017/10/17/google-fir...), which now turns out to have not been financially viable for them given the high cost of their R&D (including those mass-timber buildings which aren't even in Ontario's building code yet). Sidewalk Lab's wider plans were really an unsolicited proposal that no one asked for, so it's unfair to blame "regulators" or the tech backlash.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#33

Post by tyre »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
owenwil wrote: post #8

I know the average Torontonian wasn't into this, but I live nearby and was really excited about what it could have been, even though it was fraught with missteps. This area is a concrete wasteland–just car-parks and abandoned lots–that's now going to be portioned off to more giant, glass condo buildings, and while Sidewalk's proposal had problems, it was focused on building something very different, community-oriente…

You can still advocate for such urban redevelopment and community planning without Big Tech behind it.

You can but change is measured in decades and even then often doesn't happen.

Starting "fresh" with a single leading implementer is really how it needs to be done.

Take San Francisco. There's the planning board, the planning department, environmental lawsuits, HOAs, abusing "historic landmarks" designations, political showmanship, developers, affordable housing, community meetings, unions, community groups (the cycling people are borderline militant) etc. etc.

All of those can bring any change to its knees. And they have, repeatedly. There are good parts of this process and people shouldn't not have input, but I might not oppose a dictator coming in for two years and just having at it.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#34

Post by 52-6F-62 »

owenwil wrote: post #8

I know the average Torontonian wasn't into this, but I live nearby and was really excited about what it could have been, even though it was fraught with missteps. This area is a concrete wasteland–just car-parks and abandoned lots–that's now going to be portioned off to more giant, glass condo buildings, and while Sidewalk's proposal had problems, it was focused on building something very different, community-oriente…

I was intrigued until they started getting into wanting legal jurisdiction over the region. Even beyond the assumed privacy implications that was the real hard line for me. They did back down off of that as far as I'm aware.

I hope we can see the experimentation with wooden skyscrapers, etc, though.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#35

Post by vkou »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12
owenwil wrote: post #8

I know the average Torontonian wasn't into this, but I live nearby and was really excited about what it could have been, even though it was fraught with missteps. This area is a concrete wasteland–just car-parks and abandoned lots–that's now going to be portioned off to more giant, glass condo buildings, and while Sidewalk's proposal had problems, it was focused on building something very different, community-oriente…

You can still advocate for such urban redevelopment and community planning without Big Tech behind it.

You can, but its difficult without an 800-pound gorilla on your team.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#37

Post by ramshorns »

owenwil wrote: post #8

I know the average Torontonian wasn't into this, but I live nearby and was really excited about what it could have been, even though it was fraught with missteps. This area is a concrete wasteland–just car-parks and abandoned lots–that's now going to be portioned off to more giant, glass condo buildings, and while Sidewalk's proposal had problems, it was focused on building something very different, community-oriente…

> that's now going to be portioned off to more giant, glass condo buildings

I hope it's something a bit different. Looks like Waterfront Toronto will turn back to the community for new ideas for Quayside.

https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/portal/waterfront/Home/water...

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#38

Post by 52-6F-62 »

leoh wrote: post #22
Wacko_dacko wrote: post #4

This is great news. As a Torontonian I found their plan to be nothing more than a money grab on public space and the public in general. They also massively overreached in all their applications to the city.

> I found their plan to be nothing more than a money grab on public space and the public in general You're going to get a big real estate developer doing it instead.

Maybe.

Their plan would have implied the eradication of the properties of much of the film industry in the city who would have had to move to likely more expensive locations.

Frankly, I was surprised they were cleared to build residences in that area (or were they?)

When I worked in the film industry down on Commissioners—just a short bit west of Cherry St—there was still phosphorus seeping up through the ground on occasion...

AFAIU Waterfront Toronto has rule over the area and they've done some pretty great work with the Harbourfront area, so I would put faith in them to do a good job with the region. I think their major roadblock (prior to the pandemic) is funding. https://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/portal/waterfront/Home/w...

https://portlandsto.ca/project-details/

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#39

Post by nick_ »

Good. Toronto doesn't need condo neighbourhoods with gimmicky smart-phone integrations. It needs re-zoning of low density neighbourhoods to allow medium density to be built, thus more uniformly distributing the large and growing population.

Re: Google ends plans for smart city in Toronto

#40

Post by greendave »

> An independent panel was set up to scrutinise its plans and released a report suggesting some of its ideas were "tech for tech's sake", and potentially unnecessary.

I wonder what could have given them that idea.

> In his blog, Dan Doctoroff said the firm continued to invest in start-ups "working on everything from robotic furniture to digital electricity".

Oh, right.

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