Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#201

Post by yllus » Thu, May 07, 2020, 3:49 AM UTC

hedora wrote: post #156

yllus wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: Ad/marketing attribution, that's not necessary correct. If the data point that gets sent back to Facebook is a GUID type string that matches the GUID that got generated when you first clicked the Facebook ad for the app and doesn't include data about you specifically, I believe that's fine. I don't myself have up-to-date information what data Facebook receives via its SDK but I suspect it is GPDR compliant throug…

In the eyes of the law, how is storing and sending the guid later different from storing and sending a cookie? Edit: the GPDR link specifically says identifier numbers are personal information, and I don’t see a carve out for allowing targeted marketing campaigns to use them to measure/improve targeting performance. Wrong link, maybe?

Sorry, use of the term GUID confused things - I meant that if an identifier string is generated when you click on the ad, and the purpose is to simply see if that identifier completes the app install and first use - that's not against GPDR. (In my head GUID means "unique identifier string".) Storing the GUID tells you nothing other than some device clicked on an ad and some device did or did not complete the app install.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#202

Post by drdrey » Thu, May 07, 2020, 3:52 AM UTC

yllus wrote: post #36

For those wondering why the Facebook SDK is so widely used in popular mobile apps: Facebook Login is actually in the minority of reasons to add the Facebook SDK to your mobile app. The vast majority of apps will add the Facebook SDK because it contains Facebook App Ads; a library that "completes the circle" in terms of finding out how effectively the ads you ran on Facebook were at getting people to download, install…

How does the Facebook SDK in a 3rd party app correlate that you're the same user if you don't log into the app with FB? Is there some universal device identifier all your apps have access to?

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#203

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, May 07, 2020, 3:54 AM UTC

marmada wrote: post #165

Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

I feel like I'm in the minority here -- but I don't understand the problem. Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to). This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

>The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to).

up until now I wasn't even aware of the facebook sdk or that say, spotify is sharing my data with facebook even if I don't use their login option so it's pretty hard to make a informed decision.

Is this even legal under GDPR?

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#204

Post by ballenf » Thu, May 07, 2020, 3:57 AM UTC

marmada wrote: post #165

Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

I feel like I'm in the minority here -- but I don't understand the problem. Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to). This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

Usually when you say “win-win”, one of the wins is for each side.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#205

Post by Nicksil » Thu, May 07, 2020, 4:01 AM UTC

marmada wrote: post #165

Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

I feel like I'm in the minority here -- but I don't understand the problem. Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to). This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

>Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this.

As you mention, this is something the software developer want, not necessarily the user.

>You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to).

This argument may have some teeth if directed toward a user in our industry. Depending on the scope of the particular software in question, the majority of users is likely to be those outside the software industry; the layman. The argument falls flat when the other person doesn't have the necessary understanding to be able to perform thoughtful analysis.

>This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

That may be one reason this practice is in-use. I don't see how it makes the difference: the software developer continues these practices with no consideration of their user, much less the user's consent or indication anything is going on at all. It's all about what the software developer wants, not the user and that's not OK.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#206

Post by jeffbee » Thu, May 07, 2020, 4:02 AM UTC

RandallBrown wrote: post #179

jeffbee wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can one developer have thousands of apps? It sounds just like a giant scattergun for malware. There are not 1000 distinct useful ways to use an iPhone.

A consulting company or a company that makes "white label" apps like for restaurants or stores.

Can we agree that each restaurant having a separate app is one of the dumbest outcomes imaginable?

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#207

Post by yumraj » Thu, May 07, 2020, 4:05 AM UTC

marmada wrote: post #165

Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

I feel like I'm in the minority here -- but I don't understand the problem. Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to). This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

> You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to).

Before this article came out was this information available to the users to help them in making this decision.

No, it was not! Hence the problem.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#208

Post by mewpmewp2 » Thu, May 07, 2020, 4:07 AM UTC

Nicksil wrote: post #205

marmada wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I'm in the minority here -- but I don't understand the problem. Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to). This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

>Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. As you mention, this is something the software developer want, not necessarily the user . >You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to). This argument may have some teeth if directed toward a user in our industry. Depending on the scope of the particular software in questio…

User benefits from effective marketing. If software dev knows who their audience is better it means product will reach the correct customers more efficiently. It is win for everybody.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#209

Post by yumraj » Thu, May 07, 2020, 4:07 AM UTC

Is there a comprehensive list of applications that have the FB SDK in them so that I can decide to not install those?

Does Apple use FB SDK in their apps? I think not, but can someone confirm?

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#210

Post by cycomanic » Thu, May 07, 2020, 4:11 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #136

Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

Devil's advocate: you could always not run those apps. Although for non-technical users it would be challenging to determine if the apps were transmitting that info, it's possible for technical users to detect it (assuming the info goes to an obviously-facebook url and isn't piped through e.g. spotify) Additionally I don't think there is anything wrong with client-side analytics in general since it's basically the on…

> Additionally I don't think there is anything wrong with client-side analytics in general since it's basically the only way to monitor performance/usage in production. And this type of thing is hard to discern from the more benign case

I think in these situations it often helps if we would find this behaviour acceptable in the real world. For example we see advertisment in airport toilets or malls or whatever. As someone pointed out, the company advertising does have an interest in finding out if the ad is effective. So would people find it acceptable if someone was following the from the advertisement and writing down which stores they go to, what they buy? I acknowledge that there is significant effort to develop technology (e.g. using ultrasound) to do this, but the efforts to do this covertly are IMO a good indication that people would not accept it if it was done in the open.