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Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

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Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#161

Post by Nicksil »

scarface74 wrote: post #102
baddox wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to argue about whether it's "surreptitious." It's certainly no secret. I think this is why you need organizations (perhaps government or otherwise) to establish standards for what is and isn't acceptable, so we don't have to quibble over words like "surreptitiously."

Having a government full of technical lot illiterate politicians regulating digital advertisement - what could possibly go wrong.

>Having a government full of technical lot illiterate politicians regulating digital advertisement - what could possibly go wrong.

I'm not sure that argument works.

If we expand a bit, It wouldn't be difficult to find that governments are mostly comprised of illiterate politicians. There is no need for a government to be comprised of digital advertisement industry specialists in order to pass meaningful industry regulation.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#164

Post by opportune »

millstone wrote: post #153
opportune wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: you could always not run those apps. Although for non-technical users it would be challenging to determine if the apps were transmitting that info, it's possible for technical users to detect it (assuming the info goes to an obviously-facebook url and isn't piped through e.g. spotify) Additionally I don't think there is anything wrong with client-side analytics in general since it's basically the on…

What is this fresh hell? If you buy a spatula on Amazon, would you accept "client-side analytics" on what you cook because "it's basically the only way to monitor it?" Or would you say that your spatula usage is nobody's business? I love and happily pay for Spotify, but it is eye-opening that they send any data to Facebook. Well, shit.

If my spatula had as many failure modes as software, I would find it reasonable, sure.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#165

Post by marmada »

Nicksil wrote: post #52
yllus wrote: post #36

For those wondering why the Facebook SDK is so widely used in popular mobile apps: Facebook Login is actually in the minority of reasons to add the Facebook SDK to your mobile app. The vast majority of apps will add the Facebook SDK because it contains Facebook App Ads; a library that "completes the circle" in terms of finding out how effectively the ads you ran on Facebook were at getting people to download, install…

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

I feel like I'm in the minority here -- but I don't understand the problem.

Software developers want to know whether their existing marketing methods are effective. The FB SDK helps with this. You always have the choice to not install the app (if you don't want to).

This also helps developers make sure their marketing is effective and reaching the right people, which seems like a win-win to me.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#166

Post by whatthesmack »

We have a few thousand apps on the App Store and got bit by this today.

The SDK is very useful for a smooth login experience if the user has the Facebook app installed, because your app can offer Facebook as a login option, then just pop the user over to the Facebook app, they can tap “okay” (or whatever), and jump back to your app.

That said, we’re going to rip this thing out of our apps ASAP. No framework should be calling network code in “+load”. The convenience for the user (and the dirty tracking Facebook apparently does) is just not worth the trade-off of handing our app’s stability over to Facebook.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#167

Post by mhensley »

Nextgrid wrote: post #123
mynameisvlad wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify is actually using Facebook for login, though, so they don't necessarily use App Ads. The original commenter only said that it's the reason most (but not all) apps use the SDK.

Facebook Login can be implemented with plain oAuth without sending any data to Facebook until the user actually uses the FB Login feature. Regardless of which SDK features they use the SDK calls out to Facebook with the device's fingerprint and a persistent UUID every time the app is launched or brought back into foreground.

Would 100% suggest going the basic OAuth route with FB, and not relying on their SDKs whenever possible. Been bit by Friday-afternoon-PST deployments that wreak havoc until work starts Monday too many times :/

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#168

Post by Nicksil »

cjhopman wrote: post #68
Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

That definition is rather too broad. It makes basically everything spyware which dilutes the word too much to be useful.

>That definition is rather too broad. It makes basically everything spyware which dilutes the word too much to be useful.

I don't agree. I was very specific in stating that the practice of consuming a user's resources to transmit their information, without their explicit consent, nor an indication of the activity, for the sole benefit of Facebook and the software developer, can absolutely be considered spyware.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#169

Post by cosmojg »

cjhopman wrote: post #68
Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

That definition is rather too broad. It makes basically everything spyware which dilutes the word too much to be useful.

Nowadays, lots of things are spyware. It's important that we acknowledge this fact. Back when the Internet had a more technical userbase, the shady nonsense software tries to pull nowadays would not have flown at all. Those people would be outraged, and they'd absolutely agree that things like Facebook, Spotify, and Windows 10 meet the definition of spyware.

But slowly, the Internet population grew to include the masses, and it turns out most people don't care whatsoever about what their software is doing or how it works so long as it gets the job done, whether that's communicating with relatives, playing music, or providing a platform for other applications.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#170

Post by 5cott0 »

pb7 wrote: post #73
5cott0 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying we can be confident they won't break democracy again?

What does that have to do with engineering talent?

It has everything to do with it. Software engineers should take care to consider the risks and potential downsides to the shady products they build with that talent that aren't just downtime or tech debt but the larger impact to society itself. Silicon Valley prioritizes technical talent while completely disregarding strength and quality of character.
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