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Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

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Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#71

Post by abalone »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #23
aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

My wife is a doctor. Not an ER doc, but had to do rotations through the ER and frequently interacts with the ER in other rotations. The amount of non-emergencies the ER department sees is astounding.

That would not explain the 40-70% reductions the article cites in actual emergency admissions (strokes etc).

Update: whoever downvoted this, I challenge you to state why.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#72

Post by treeman79 »

aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

Had a dozen visits to the ER. I was Constantly sent away because nothing serious. Tests generally clean. Told it was mental. Problems persisted.

Kept avoiding ER, I felt bad wasting time. Plus money.

Finally went in and they ran an extra test and found the issue. Probably had seen 30 doctors during all of this.

Some of the doctors were amazed I hadn’t dropped dead yet.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#73

Post by JackFr »

not2b wrote: post #54
snapetom wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people have been scared into thinking that hospitals are overrun and if they step outside, they're going to get the coronavirus and die.

I don't think people fear that they'll die if they step outside, but they are afraid of catching coronavirus if they go to a hospital, and in some hot spots that's been a real risk. But it's a lower risk than dying of a heart attack because you refuse to seek care.

A solid month of messaging “stay at home” and “hospitals are overwhelmed” and ratings driven fear-mongering been far more effective than policy makers ever intended.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#74

Post by guscost »

indecisive_user wrote: post #67
benburleson wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but I've never seen more people out walking around town than the last couple months. Is there research showing people are more sedentary now?

Crime is down, while domestic violence is up. That's evidence people are staying inside more. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52416330 As a counter anecdote, I know many people that only leave their house a few times per week, including for walks. They are definitely more sedentary now.

And you'd think deaths from auto accidents would be way down, but apparently not in Boston: https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/05/04/coronavirus-covid-19-...

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#75

Post by abalone »

makomk wrote: post #26
lonelappde wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You not have overlooked these details when you read the article: > One study collected data from nine hospitals across the country, focusing on a crucial procedure used to reopen a blocked cardiac artery after a heart attack. The hospitals performed 38% fewer of those procedures in March, compared with previous months. > At Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, Dr. Malveeka Sharma has tracked a 60% decline in stroke…

There's one obvious possibility... there's some evidence that flu triggers heart attacks in people already at risk for one, Covid-19 also seems to do the same, lockdowns have cut short the flu season but are less effective against Covid-19, and I've seen suggestions elsewhere that doctors are refusing to even consider doing this kind of procedure on people who test positive for Covid-19. It's possible the heart attac…

Except stroke admissions are way down too. No obvious link between the flu and strokes.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#76

Post by fzeroracer »

umvi wrote: post #24

Are just the ERs empty? Or the whole hospital as well? If hospitals are empty, it's time to stop sheltering in place, because it means it's working too well . What's the endgame? We can't just keep the country shut down indefinitely. Life must move on. Even though there's still a lot of fear, I think reopening the country is the best option (while still maintaining social distancing, etc).

I'm going to keep repeating this until people understand the risks: Opening up too early without adequate testing in place means we go through the same problem that Hokkaido did. Which is that you get a second wave of infections and are forced to back into lockdown.

As for the article itself: Reopening the country wouldn't fix that either because it's a catch-22 situation. The people most at risk of dying from COVID-19 don't want to go to the hospital because of the risk. So they put off emergencies until it's too late. You don't solve this problem by reopening the country because the fear and the risk for said people is still there.

My parents are a great example. They have breathing issues which makes them especially at risk. They're afraid of getting routine tests done because catching the coronavirus could be very deadly.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#77

Post by jerzyt »

benburleson wrote: post #55
munk-a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly in the short term - in the long term the quarantine is likely going to increase heart disease due to people having more sedentary life styles... It's quite likely this is just a result of the math of going to a hospital shifting - a lot of folks decide not to go to the hospital with minor chest pain due to other obligations[1] and the addition of the outbreak likely adds to the reasons not to go to the hospi…

This is anecdotal, but I've never seen more people out walking around town than the last couple months. Is there research showing people are more sedentary now?

It would be nice for Fitbit to publish some research. They have the data.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#78

Post by cat199 »

indecisive_user wrote: post #67
benburleson wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but I've never seen more people out walking around town than the last couple months. Is there research showing people are more sedentary now?

Crime is down, while domestic violence is up. That's evidence people are staying inside more. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52416330 As a counter anecdote, I know many people that only leave their house a few times per week, including for walks. They are definitely more sedentary now.

> That's evidence people are staying inside more.

no, that's a big extrapolation..

one possible counterpoint: couples in healthy relationships could still be going out more, whereas those in dysfunctional ones might be fighting more due to more proximity or exascerbated economic hardship

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#79

Post by sfj »

pmiller2 wrote: post #34
umvi wrote: post #24

Are just the ERs empty? Or the whole hospital as well? If hospitals are empty, it's time to stop sheltering in place, because it means it's working too well . What's the endgame? We can't just keep the country shut down indefinitely. Life must move on. Even though there's still a lot of fear, I think reopening the country is the best option (while still maintaining social distancing, etc).

No, it doesn't mean "stop sheltering in place," unless cases of COVID-19 have peaked. In order to tell whether they've peaked, you need testing in place, as well. Even if they have peaked, it could mean "relax some of the restrictions, but not fully end SIP, while monitoring cases." Opening things back up prematurely, without sufficient testing, is just going to get people killed.

> Opening things back up prematurely, without sufficient testing, is just going to get people killed.

But how many will get killed? Allowing people to drive down the street also kills people. What's the limit?

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#80

Post by downerending »

treeman79 wrote: post #72
aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

Had a dozen visits to the ER. I was Constantly sent away because nothing serious. Tests generally clean. Told it was mental. Problems persisted. Kept avoiding ER, I felt bad wasting time. Plus money. Finally went in and they ran an extra test and found the issue. Probably had seen 30 doctors during all of this. Some of the doctors were amazed I hadn’t dropped dead yet.

The realization that the median doctor is probably about as good at their job as the median techie makes me shudder at the thought of going to the ER. Yeah, I'll do it if I have to.
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