Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 221 posts

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#41

Post by look_lookatme »

aluminussoma wrote: post #14
sushid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article addresses this. They expect fewer trauma patients as there are fewer people on the road, etc. but they expect the number of stroke, heart attack, etc. patients to remain constant, which hasn't been the case.

The article doesn't address the opinion that my doctor relative expressed: there were a lot of ER visits, not trauma related, that probably didn't need to happen.

Great that's also not the point of the article, that heart attacks and strokes aren't being seen at the same rate.

Your point is orthogonal to the point of the article.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#42

Post by WalterSear »

seibelj wrote: post #29
guscost wrote: post #5

Dying at home, many of them. Excess mortality is way up, and it’s not all COVID-19: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/patients-with-heart-at... > The possibility that patients may be suffering — and even dying — at home rather than going to a hospital led the American College of Cardiology to launch a “Cardiosmart” campaign last week, attempting to reassure a wary population and encourage those with symptoms to c…

Could relaxing still home and cooking your own meals reduce activity-causing heart attacks? It’s a trope in the North-East that middle aged men die shoveling snow.

Most people don't have easy remote-ok-browse-hacker-news-at-4pm jobs.

They are at home, watching their debt grow and wondering how they will be able to find a new job to pay their bills.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#43

Post by thinkingemote »

olalonde wrote: post #33

This pandemic will surely produce a lot of material for economists and social scientists who study the law of unintended consequences.

And documentaries with titles such as The Power of Nightmares

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#44

Post by manigandham »

pmiller2 wrote: post #34
umvi wrote: post #24

Are just the ERs empty? Or the whole hospital as well? If hospitals are empty, it's time to stop sheltering in place, because it means it's working too well . What's the endgame? We can't just keep the country shut down indefinitely. Life must move on. Even though there's still a lot of fear, I think reopening the country is the best option (while still maintaining social distancing, etc).

No, it doesn't mean "stop sheltering in place," unless cases of COVID-19 have peaked. In order to tell whether they've peaked, you need testing in place, as well. Even if they have peaked, it could mean "relax some of the restrictions, but not fully end SIP, while monitoring cases." Opening things back up prematurely, without sufficient testing, is just going to get people killed.

Why do cases matter? It should be the death rate that peaks, and that's measurable without testing. In fact it seems to be over-attributed since many deaths are now being classified to Covid even if there are many other factors.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#45

Post by sacks2k »

newacct583 wrote: post #37
sacks2k wrote: post #31

People are staying home and dying. This is one of the major trade offs no government official is talking about regarding re-opening the economy.

How is that related to the lockdown? Hospitals are open. People are staying home because they're scared of getting sick, that's not something that can be fixed by public policy.

"fixed by public policy"

Public policy right now is to stay home or die of Covid 19. Many people are scared to even go outside or go to a hospital if they don't have the virus.

Starting to open businesses again and requiring social distancing would definitely help with the fear and more people would actually go to the hospital for non-covid health issues.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#46

Post by snapetom »

newacct583 wrote: post #37
sacks2k wrote: post #31

People are staying home and dying. This is one of the major trade offs no government official is talking about regarding re-opening the economy.

How is that related to the lockdown? Hospitals are open. People are staying home because they're scared of getting sick, that's not something that can be fixed by public policy.

Because people have been scared into thinking that hospitals are overrun and if they step outside, they're going to get the coronavirus and die.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#47

Post by chapium »

dade_ wrote: post #17

Cars kill us: Far fewer car crashes, more sleep as no need to commute so early in the morning, no horrible drive into the office screaming and honking at the idiot driver, no horrible drive home while texting. Alcohol kills us: no drunk fights at bars, drunk driving, falling in front of moving vehicles. Not saying it explains it, but a lot of people get hurt and die for stupid reasons.

I don't know if you are in on this, but...

https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/38-of-new-yorkers-a...

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#48

Post by maxerickson »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #23
aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

My wife is a doctor. Not an ER doc, but had to do rotations through the ER and frequently interacts with the ER in other rotations. The amount of non-emergencies the ER department sees is astounding.

Not really. It's often "convenient" relative to all the places that aren't open, and they won't turn you away until they've assessed your situation.

What's wild is that we structure payment and regulatory models where a walk in at the ER costs more than a walk in at the urgent care located literally next door. Gotta self assess how serious the situation is if you don't wanna contribute to the high risk revenue pool.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#49

Post by diN0bot »

if you go to the ER, is it still the case you could up alone in the hospital without ever seeing a family member? and possibly die alone?

i wonder if a “bad death” is also a deterrent if you thought you were dying. or if emergencies don’t come with those kinds of calculations. not sure if/why covid calculation would be any more likely, though.

Re: Eerie emptiness of ERs worries doctors: where are the heart attacks and strokes?

#50

Post by guscost »

aluminussoma wrote: post #3

There is also another opinion: that many people go to the ER who don't really need to go there. I had to visit the ER recently. I did not want to go but my doctor insisted. A family member who is also a doctor also insisted I go. The ER was eerily empty. The ER doctor saw me immediately. There were only a couple of other patients that I could see. This contrasts to prior experiences in the ER where there is a long wa…

From my link in this thread:

> MUSC, a major stroke center, averaged 550 calls per month over the past four months about possible stroke patients from the 45 to 50 emergency rooms that refer patients. But it has seen just 100 in the first half of April, said Alex Spiotta, director of neurovascular surgery.

This is not just happening at ERs, this is happening at the places ERs will refer you to, usually after checking whether you do in fact need immediate care.

Post reply on HN