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GitHub Codespaces

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Re: GitHub Codespaces

#381

Post by meheleventyone »

wpietri wrote: post #271
meheleventyone wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your characterization of being an "intermediate product" is also dubious since you aren't being sold in any reasonable sense ala the way you are with ad tech. And whilst MS are obviously in the business of making money that doesn't mean it's the only thing they'll do.

If you'd like to argue that MS is giving this away just to be nice, instead of as a calculated move toward sustaining or increasing revenue, I'd be interested to see that. But for now let's assume they're doing what their shareholders expect: making money. We can't know whether I'm an intermediate product without knowing their goals, which they're unlikely to be transparent about. But lets suppose one of their goals…

If all this is really what you believe rather than just being argumentative then how can you use any product. Usage and market share statistics are just as useful to JetBrains in that regard and you pay them for the privilege of being an “intermediate product”.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#382

Post by zerkten »

cema wrote: post #346
carapace wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this. The analogy seems clear to me: The web is to IE as git is to VSCode, eh? At the very least, it makes it harder for an editor to be a competitor to VSCode w/o integrating with GitHub (not just git) now, eh?

Not really. At least: the web happened well before IE was introduced as an answer. In contrast, VS Code was invented much later than git which at the time was an established technology and in some ways a standard.

The other context here is that IE was a competitive browser in its time: 1998-2001. The problem is that it won and then languished. IE had a lot of sway over how developers built things as the market share grew. Then it locked in users in various ways which starved the other competitors.

It took until Phoenix (now Firefox), for there to be something better that grabbed the attention of developers and those sick of being stuck with IE. It became Firefox and Mozilla hatched a pretty effective plan to steal market share. For all of Mozilla's recent failings, we forget (or weren't around to remember) the success of Firefox was pretty impressive as it was a grassroots effort.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#383

Post by rubber_duck »

dastbe wrote: post #225
ivalm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their remote development capability is amazing and was quite a game changer for me. Having a nice ide where all of the plugins work on a remote server as if everything is local is so nice!

remote dev (and I guess now codespaces) is one of those "clear differentiators" that is actually getting me to move away from intellij and friends.

I wish IntelliJ moves in this direction so bad - would gladly pay more for this. I tried switching to VS Code for my current project yesterday and it's the best VS Code scenario out of my projects - backend RoR frontend React/TS. TypeScript aspect is amazing but the Rails part is nowhere close to RubyMine.

.NET (Core) was inferior to any IDE (even Xamarin ones) last time I tried it (~6 months back). IntelliJ Rider has been quite an amazing discovery in this regard - I prefer it to Visual Studio.

And then there are things like mobile development which VS Code has realistically no chance of touching.

Any language I can think of other than TypeScript - VSCode just cannot come close to IntelliJ support. I would pay for the ability to have a desktop machine on which I could SSH develop from say a Windows tablet/2in1 with integrated 4G and hardware powerful enough to run the client editor + productivity apps and has portability + battery life (say some intel low power series + 8GB ram)

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#384

Post by rckoepke »

donmcronald wrote: post #212
factorialboy wrote: post #43

So.. let's say I host my source code with MS (GitHub), I develop using their web ide (visual studio code space) and then I deploy to their cloud (azure). Give it a decade and you'll have Microsoft specific developers and organizations who are locked in beyond rescue. It's always a fragmentation vs defragmentation battle.

It's going to be ALL developers getting locked in. You're seeing a 5-10 year plan in action here. 1. Create a popular, locally run dev editor. 2. Shift it to the cloud. 3. Build all new features into the cloud version only. 4. Ignore the locally run version until it's obsolete. 5. Developers rent the cloud version forever. The GitHub integration is going to be amazing for Microsoft because the allure of clicking a bu…

> We'll get to a point where new developers won't even know how to set up a local development environment.

I think we're already there. I think system administration is the current biggest stumbling block that new programmers have. Tools like repl.it, google colab, etc. remove these (stumbling blocks | learning opportunities).

At many universities, a lot of code is now written in online editors that compile, run, and check against public and hidden unit tests (sort of like codewars but lower quality).

I personally love learning systems administration but there is very real demand for services that abstract it all away.

That said, you enumerated an effective roadmap for this kind of transition. I suspect it will generate an increased annual cost similar in magnitude to the Office 365 migration.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#385

Post by enraged_camel »

threeseed wrote: post #356
sparky_ wrote: post #284

Must be fun for @sytse to watch these GitHub announcements every year, where they consistently release the same thing GitLab rolled out two years prior. Codespaces -> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/web_ide/ Insights -> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/insights/ GH Actions -> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/ etc

Gitlab is a bit of a mess though: a) Gitlab.com is ridiculously slow. Even the CEO admits they failed to invest in it. b) You can't disable features you don't need so you end up with a sidebar full of Kubernetes and Security features for a Git project dedicated to documentation. c) Staggering amount of open issues and merge requests so you feel discouraged from even raising anything since it just gets lost in the wee…

I'm a solo developer and I disagree with everything you have said. Gitlab has been an absolute joy to use. Sure, it has a lot of features, but it's not like you are forced to use stuff you don't need. My workflow is pretty simple, yet I have never felt like I'm using a sledgehammer to kill a fly.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#386

Post by sdesol »

factorialboy wrote: post #360
tommoor wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure he'll have his usual blogpost moaning about how Gitlab already has it by end of day.

To be fair, nothing was announced today by GH that wasn't in GL for several years. Perhaps the quality of VS Code trumps GL WebIDE ... But I am not the sort of developer to ditch my desktop editors / IDEs for something running in a browser (electron or otherwise).

I think the most important thing that most people maybe forgetting is, GitHub maybe announcing these features, but these features were the results of acquiring companies that were solely focused on these features for years.

So if you take this into consideration, GitHub's feature has not only been in works for a while, but they have been refined to a point that GitLab will have a hard time catching up to.

There is no way GitLab will be able to compete on the IDE front-end for a while since GitHub's solution is essentially VSCode which they own and is iterated on at an incredible rate. And the one thing Microsoft hasn't made open source, that makes remote work incredibility powerful, is what makes Codespace incredibility difficult for GitLab to compete with.

Their security scan feature is the result of acquiring a leader in the field with expertise that GitLab will have a hard time matching/hiring for. And GitHub's Insights feature is the result of multiple acquisitions with years of previous experience.

These announcements maybe new, but the solutions that GitHub has released are years ahead of GitLab's existing solution.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#387

Post by nikmd23 »

donmcronald wrote: post #231
Kipters wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's not like you MUST deploy on Azure

I think it's more about all of the integration leading to efficiencies that are hard to ignore while they're being subsidized / promoted. It'll start out as something where the value proposition is too good to ignore, but, as time goes on, they'll tier off features and charge a premium as you scale up. There was a time when I was hopeful and though Microsoft would take a developer first approach with the end goal bei…

Hi! PM on the Codespaces team here.

I wanted to quickly help calm any potential concerns about changes to VS Code or its model.

Codespaces is a separate, additional service from VS Code, very much focused on providing compute catered to developers and their workflows. We hope you'll use and love it, but we're also very happy if you'd prefer to continue to use VS Code in the ways that you may have previously done.

Either way, we will continue to invest heavily in VS Code as you know it. Codespaces will not change that.

Hopefully that helps clarify any concerns!

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#388

Post by Aeolun »

3PS wrote: post #307
zimmund wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work with poor or slow internet connection?

In my experience, pretty well. If the internet cuts out temporarily, it reconnects automatically without losing any of your work.

It’s actually impressive how often VS code or ssh has exploded for some reason without losing any work.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#389

Post by lawik »

ivalm wrote: post #31
xendipity wrote: post #2

Ah, this really makes sense with all of the recent work they've done on VSCode's remote development capabilities. - An early announcement on their focus: https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2019/05/02/remote-develo... - Most (all?) of their recent VSCode updates include improvements to remote development. i.e.: https://code.visualstudio.com/updates/v1_44#_remote-developm... - Facebook partnering and becoming an early…

Their remote development capability is amazing and was quite a game changer for me. Having a nice ide where all of the plugins work on a remote server as if everything is local is so nice!

So nice when it works and has been breaking incredibly badly for me recently. The Python extensions that vscode was trying to bring up whenever I connected to my remote had some weird interaction with a virtualenv and just pinned the server to 100% CPU and rendered it completely unresponsive. Repeatedly. Reboot to recover.

Generally extremely good, but for obvious reasons this makes me think twice about connecting to some things.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#390

Post by BiteCode_dev »

sparky_ wrote: post #284

Must be fun for @sytse to watch these GitHub announcements every year, where they consistently release the same thing GitLab rolled out two years prior. Codespaces -> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/web_ide/ Insights -> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/insights/ GH Actions -> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/ etc

Yeah, well good luck with that one.

With this feature, MS just ventured in a space where no-one can compare yet.

If this ever gets popular, that's check mate right here.

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