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GitHub Codespaces

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Re: GitHub Codespaces

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free is a huge minus in my book. If I'm not the customer, then I'm the product. I'll happily keep paying for my JetBrains all-product license: https://www.jetbrains.com/all/

> If I'm not the customer, then I'm the product. I'm not sure what you mean by this, care to expand? Aren't you also the product for JetBrains, since you're one of the customers that's keeping them afloat?

No the JetBrains IDE is the product. This phrase generally refers to things like Facebook or Google. They offer tons of free services in order to gather data about you and sell it to advertisers.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While VS Code is definitely good in general, and first choice for languages like JavaScript, I find it really hard to compare it to JetBrains PyCharm and GoLand (understanding GoLand has no free version). The debugging and refactoring experiences for Go and Python in VSCode feel slow, awkward to set up and configure and just generally tacked-on. I have gotten the PyCharm professional and GoLand licensed through my em…

I've been using VS Code's Go and Python plugins for development for the last 2 years and I've never had any major issues. In fact, my experience continues to get better after every release. With the Go language server kicking off, Go development in VS Code is literally a breeze. Every single thing I'd want to do (format code, imports, run tests, run a particular test, debug a test, breakpoints, on and on) has been in…

I made the transition from PyCharm to VSCode a couple of days ago and... it's not been smooth. Virtualenv doesn't automatically activate when I first open the workspace, pylint doesn't work yet VSCode thinks it's working and debugging just doesn't seem to work full stop.

I need to get back to it and try to fix it because I do like VSCode as a whole.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#223
post #197

Typical Microsoft strategy: Embrace, extend and extinguish Soon the Platform will be renamed 'Microsost Visual Studio Github' or 'Microsoft team Github'. Then 'microsoft Visual studio hub'. Then at somme point, Github will be inside Visual studio code online and not anymore the other way around!

What? This is just them creating a one stop shop for developers by expanding what GitHub offers. Nothing to do with EEE

Just think! You have Github. Git coming from linux, open source World, ... Also Github is notoriously the base of a lot of the ecosystem that is deprecating Microsoft solutions and environnement. All the website and js things of today are all developped by and for the unix world(linux, mac,..). In ms World, you were supposed to use proprietary closed heavy corporate solutions : c sharp, j2e, closed 'pro' server solutions.

Si Github was the corner of all of that. Then they but it, suddenly there are a lot of features coming that bring it far from the scm job it was meant to. Now, it starts to be 'integrated' with ms tool ecosystem. How long before your Github accounts are merged, shared, replace with a Microsoft account?

They will tell you that it makes sense and is needed because vscode needs to be interconnected with ms team and co...

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#224

This is pretty epic. VS Code has proven itself to be one of the best (if not the best) and feature-complete editor out there. It's basically an IDE of a ton of languages at this point, and it's completely free. Integrating it with GH is a no-brainer move from Microsoft's standpoint, to increase market share even further with more seamless integration. If they're able to do setup for Python, Go, Ruby, and JavaScript p…

While VS Code is definitely good in general, and first choice for languages like JavaScript, I find it really hard to compare it to JetBrains PyCharm and GoLand (understanding GoLand has no free version). The debugging and refactoring experiences for Go and Python in VSCode feel slow, awkward to set up and configure and just generally tacked-on. I have gotten the PyCharm professional and GoLand licensed through my em…

Yup, VSCode isn't comparable to IntelliJ or the rest at all for anything other than Typescript. IntelliJ offers a bunch of life saving refactorings. Want to extract a new method? Ctrl+Alt+M. The exact same shortcut works in every language, with almost the same semantics as much as possible. Intellij can do context aware autocompletion (Ctrl+Shift+Space).

I use vscode for lightweight file editing. But for any long term project, it doesn't offer anything over Jetbrains products.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#225
post #31

Ah, this really makes sense with all of the recent work they've done on VSCode's remote development capabilities. - An early announcement on their focus: https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2019/05/02/remote-develo... - Most (all?) of their recent VSCode updates include improvements to remote development. i.e.: https://code.visualstudio.com/updates/v1_44#_remote-developm... - Facebook partnering and becoming an early…

Their remote development capability is amazing and was quite a game changer for me. Having a nice ide where all of the plugins work on a remote server as if everything is local is so nice!

remote dev (and I guess now codespaces) is one of those "clear differentiators" that is actually getting me to move away from intellij and friends.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free is a huge minus in my book. If I'm not the customer, then I'm the product. I'll happily keep paying for my JetBrains all-product license: https://www.jetbrains.com/all/

> If I'm not the customer, then I'm the product. I'm not sure what you mean by this, care to expand? Aren't you also the product for JetBrains, since you're one of the customers that's keeping them afloat?

Sure. The foundation of commerce is sustained relationships where value is mutually exchanged. I give you a few bucks, you give me a cheeseburger. If fix somebody's problem with a computer, they give me cash. Product for payment; value for value.

When some commercial effort departs from that, it's good to be suspicious. The bills are getting paid somehow. E.g., look at network television from 1960-2000 or so. The viewers were not customers. The viewers were the product being sold to people who wanted to manipulate them. Advertisers were the customers, so the programs were generally about getting maximum influenceable wallet-connected eyeballs; quality was at best secondary.

In contrast, look at what's happened to TV since then. We're in a golden age. [1] Why? Many reasons, but a key one is that people are now paying for TV directly. To Netflix and Hulu and HBO and all the other paid streaming efforts, you're the customer, not the product being sold to somebody else. Now they have a strong incentive to make things that you don't just tolerate but love.

Microsoft in particular has a history of monopolistic behavior that has been harmful to the industry (e.g., [2], [3]). Are these developer tools awesome just because Microsoft is run by nice, generous people? I'd say instead they correctly recognize that if they want to regain some of their lost market power, they're going to have to compete with the existing tools, many of which are quite good. Why are they good? I'd say it's partly because smart people have built a strong business [4] making those tools. If Microsoft manages to eliminate the competition, they'll lose the incentive to build good stuff, just like they have in the past.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Television_(2000...

[2] https://eev.ee/blog/2020/02/01/old-css-new-css/

[3] http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepape...

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21796793

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just hope they don't only maintain this online editor and deprecate the desktop install.

Considering the desktop install is an Electron app I wouldn't think the two would diverge that much.

If they don't release the code for the cloud implementation, it could diverge.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#228
post #213

Typical Microsoft strategy: Embrace, extend and extinguish Soon the Platform will be renamed 'Microsost Visual Studio Github' or 'Microsoft team Github'. Then 'microsoft Visual studio hub'. Then at somme point, Github will be inside Visual studio code online and not anymore the other way around!

Just goes to show hard a reputation can be to let go of. Different people, different leadership, different strategy and an entirely innocuous product offering. But people still find a way to relate it to EEE.

Its legacy thinking.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#229

Microsoft is really the best at the slow strategic burn. * You host your project in github * You fund your project using github sponsors * You develop your project using github codespaces * You compile, test and deploy using github actions * You cloud host on azure Each individual feature is definitely great. I'm not trying to be critical of Microsoft trying to turn their investment in github into a profitable busine…

As someone how really like github and really dislikes azure devops - and a corporate direction pushing us from the former to the later - any idea what their endgame is as these two converge?

I also use Azure DevOps for work and am a recently-former MSFT person. From what I've heard from those still there, most of the new development is going towards Github Actions, which is also reflected in their staffing movements. However with GHA running on top of ADO pipeline infrastructure (public info), Microsoft's success with the strategic slow burn as OP called it, and their super-long-term-support reputation, it's probably not in their interest to rush the move. I'd be willing to bet that in a year+ or so the writing on the public wall becomes much clearer. To that extent, we've started planning a migration at my company.

Re: GitHub Codespaces

#230
post #75

This is going to be great for open source—Being able to get a fully-configured dev environment at a click of a button greatly lowers the barrier to entry. I've had a few small OS contributions where the time to set up the environment was more than the time I spent programming! I could also see this being popular with engineering teams. No futzing with the new hire's computer, just have them open a web browser and the…

I'm not sure if this is really true. Why would you want to become a contributor to an OSS project if you can't bother to get it working on your machine? You actually learn quite a bit about the project by going through its dependency hell.

I'd like to be able to contribute to Firefox or Brave, but there's no way I'm going through with the setup.

If I could just do some small stuff, maybe write some unit tests, that would be fine.

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