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Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

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Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#31

Post by ashtonkem »

willis936 wrote: post #27
ashtonkem wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains. The fact that long haul semi trucks are a thing is a failure of infrastructure. Edit: as some have pointed out, it’s more a failure of policy.

Trains are large and inflexible. Short of having a city-block resolution freight train network at every population center, you'll need something flexible for the last mile of delivery.

You’re misunderstanding.

The only reason why you’d need on-road recharging for hypothetical autonomous semi trucks is if they’re regularly traveling outside the range of their batteries, which is probably in the 400-500mi range.

In a well designed infrastructure system, that shouldn’t happen often. Instead the hops of hundreds of miles should be handled by trains, leaving semi trucks for the last dozens of miles from train hub to area of need.

Some long haul trucking will happen, but it should be a slim minority of cases.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#32

Post by ravenstine »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

That's because it's not "cool". We wanted our flying cars, so if we aren't getting those, we at least want our cars to do wild and unbelievable things like flock together and fuel each other like jet planes. Who's going to invest in battery swapping technology? It's effectively a solved problem and not exciting.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#34

Post by matz1 »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

Probably the same reason why smartphone battery is not swappable. For various reason we don't have swappable smartphone battery even though it is technically much easier problem to solve.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#35

Post by yingw787 »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

Immediate concern for me would be safety. My impression is the battery pack provides a lot of the rigidity necessary to keep the car in one piece, and swapping the battery out introduces new hazards.

There's also the concern about liability, whether the battery pack you're getting is as good as the one you're trading in (what if it's older and has a lower overall capacity), and how that might impact resale value.

Third would be logistics, keeping the flow of batteries through the stations and having enough batteries on hand to swap on demand, and keeping compatibility with different makes and models, is a challenge.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#36

Post by leetcrew »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

unless manufacturers implement some sort of standardized battery pack, it seems like this would be a logistical headache. simple enough to store and charge your original battery for when you return, but how do they have the correct battery for you to pick up on the outgoing leg? is the "gas" station supposed to keep a stock of charged batteries for every type of EV?

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#37

Post by jdofaz »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

Increased capacity and high speed charging have made it not worth the cost/complexity.

I've read the Rivian truck can have an additional battery dropped in the truck bed but I don't think it is something you can buy yet.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#38

Post by ravenstine »

matz1 wrote: post #34
patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

Probably the same reason why smartphone battery is not swappable. For various reason we don't have swappable smartphone battery even though it is technically much easier problem to solve.

What reason would that be? I always assumed that was because of the pursuit of slimmer phones and to discourage repair.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#39

Post by NickM »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

It was abandoned because fast charging stations keep improving, and are much simpler and cheaper to operate than battery swap stations. It's already at the point where you can take a 400-500 mile road trip in a Model 3 with maybe a single twenty minute charging stop, which is just not that much extra time, and most people like to take a short break every few hours anyway.

I suspect Tesla knew this would probably happen, but IIRC there was a rule for a while with the California ZEV credit program where manufacturers qualified for extra credits if a vehicle could be "refueled" in under five minutes. Tesla set up a single swapping station to prove it could be done and therefore qualify for the extra credits, but it was always kind of inconvenient and expensive and very few people actually used it.

Re: Can electric cars on the highway emulate plane-to-plane refueling?

#40

Post by [deleted] »

patall wrote: post #26

Can anyone explain what happened to battery swapping. A few years ago there was this Tesla show where they swapped three cars in the time it took to refuel a normal ICE automotive. But after that nothing happened. I know it is difficult to handle when you do not own the battery but I would guess 90% of private long distance trips are return trips, so you could swap batteries at your trusted former gas station every 2…

[deleted]
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