Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

rolkotech.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 201 posts

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#181

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

catblast wrote: post #146
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, a company with as much data as Amazon leaving is a pretty big deal and obviously is in the news. Are Oracle cloud offerings actually doing well? What evidence is there of this?

They’re a publicly traded company, this is readily available information. Sure the growth is not a hockey stick, but they’re not exactly dying either. The way people talk on here you’d think they’re filing for bankruptcy tomorrow.

Which is about what you expect - Oracle has a sizeable legacy business with which they can exploit. But are they really winning new business without subsidy?

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#182

Post by derefr »

pjmlp wrote: post #102
thda wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dbeaver and plugin_debugger. For distributed transactions, it all depends on why you need them in the first place but there are multiple solutions in postgres to handle them.

So some third party solution, and not first class support from the RDMS vendor. That is not the same as using Oracle.

Postgres isn't an RDBMS "vendor." Third-party service providers are who you have relationships with. It's like Linux vs. Windows. You don't have a relationship with "Linux"; you have a relationship with RedHat or Canonical, who take responsibility for integration, support, and maintenance of their upstreams (kernel, core libraries, userland packages, etc.)

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#183

Post by derefr »

tomnipotent wrote: post #159
thda wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oracle DB also has been the leader performance wise for complex queries and large datasets SQL server has a column store type of storage, and major innovations like 'froid'. Oracle is not such a strong leader there. Also, on a whole lot of workloads clickhouse is much superior.

> whole lot of workloads clickhouse is much superior. ClickHouse is a read-only analytics database and overlaps with Oracle in only those areas, otherwise Oracle blows it out of the water.

Yes, and? If you're choosing a tool to deploy for that workload, why would you deploy Oracle instead of ClickHouse? The same question goes for any other analogous workload. Why use something that's second-best at 100 different jobs (Oracle), when you could just choose the best-in-class tool for the exact job you're doing each time?

Especially since, in the particular use-case we're talking about here (data warehousing), the whole paradigm and all the tooling is built around the expectation of ETL pipelines copying+transforming+"cubing" data around from OLTP (or data-lake) systems to OLAP systems. "Everything being part of one solution from one vendor" doesn't make one whit of difference in that case, since the whole architecture is expected to be built around having a one-way pipeline of mutually-opaque interoperating systems, so any two pipeline stages that can manage to speak to one-another at all can't really be any "more" well-integrated than that.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#184

Post by derefr »

krakatau1 wrote: post #96

I don't have a lot of experience with Oracle but I can tell you that Postgres optimizer is shit compared to Db2 zOS or Db2 LUW. When I worked in a large bank we tried to migrate core system from Db2 zOS to Postgres and it went nowhere. I was a in-house developer working with Postgres consultants and they were amazed by db2 performance in OLTP scenarios. So if your organization is already spending cash on Oracle, Db2…

I've never understood why RDBMSes don't offer a low-level protocol where, rather than a SQL statement, you can just send over the exact query-plan AST you want the DB to prepare in some binary encoding. Then you could pre-compile your hot OLTP queries and heavy OLAP reports offline against your existing DB schema, using the same sort of techniques that got Lucene its optimized Levenstein-automata JVM bytecode. You could even tweak the resulting plan, op by op, before letting it go to the DB—as if you were doing final ASM tweaks on a game in the 90s.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#185

Post by cryptonector »

edmundsauto wrote: post #149
cryptonector wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostgreSQL + PostgREST == blinding light. You get a RESTful interface to PG. All you need to add is a static page w/ some JS, for which you can use react-admin or similar. Presto: web apps written in PG.

Can you point me to a good resource on this? I work 100% in the data layer right now, but the idea of being able to create an easy frontend (assuming I learn react) would be wonderful.

PostgREST: https://github.com/PostgREST/postgrest and http://postgrest.org/en/v6.0/

Sample PostgREST apps: http://postgrest.org/en/v6.0/ecosystem.html

React-admin: https://marmelab.com/react-admin/ and https://github.com/marmelab/react-admin

React.js: https://reactjs.org/

Combinations:

- https://github.com/tsingson/ra-postgrest-client - https://github.com/raphiniert-com/ra-data-postgrest - https://reactjsexample.com/a-react-web-application-to-query-... - https://github.com/tomberek/aor-postgrest-client - https://github.com/priyank-purohit/PostGUI - https://awesomeopensource.com/project/priyank-purohit/PostGU... - https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/bzrr1c/how_to_...

More links:

- https://github.com/topics/postgrest - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22postgrest%22+%22react%22&t=ffab... - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22postgrest%22+%22react-admin%22&... - https://react-admin.com/docs/en/ecosystem.html

I'm sure you can find more!

Yeah, there's not one solution. There are many. Many are open source. PostgREST is amazing. The rest is up to you, but there's tons of tools out there.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#186

Post by pjmlp »

derefr wrote: post #182
pjmlp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So some third party solution, and not first class support from the RDMS vendor. That is not the same as using Oracle.

Postgres isn't an RDBMS "vendor." Third-party service providers are who you have relationships with. It's like Linux vs. Windows. You don't have a relationship with "Linux"; you have a relationship with RedHat or Canonical, who take responsibility for integration, support, and maintenance of their upstreams (kernel, core libraries, userland packages, etc.)

Apparently not, otherwise there wouldn't exist something like "The PostgreSQL Global Development Group".

Anyone trying others to adopt their products is a vendor, regardless if they are commercial or open source.

Also Linux is just a kernel, naturally it needs a vendor like RedHat or Canonical to provide an actual product.

Postgres is a RDMS already out of the box.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#188

Post by tomnipotent »

derefr wrote: post #183
tomnipotent wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whole lot of workloads clickhouse is much superior. ClickHouse is a read-only analytics database and overlaps with Oracle in only those areas, otherwise Oracle blows it out of the water.

Yes, and? If you're choosing a tool to deploy for that workload , why would you deploy Oracle instead of ClickHouse? The same question goes for any other analogous workload. Why use something that's second-best at 100 different jobs (Oracle), when you could just choose the best-in-class tool for the exact job you're doing each time? Especially since, in the particular use-case we're talking about here (data warehousi…

> Especially since, in the particular use-case we're talking about here (data warehousing)

I didn't read any context of data warehousing except for the ClickHouse comment.

When comparing CH to Oracle, there's at best a 10% overlap. Within that overlap, CH is pretty amazing in what it can offer. However, for the remaining 90% Oracle kicks the shit out of CH.

CH does not have to worry about being an OLTP database and everything that entails (transactions, MVCC etc.) That means CH gets to take a LOT of shortcuts to offer what it does.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#189

Post by thda »

pjmlp wrote: post #135
thda wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plugin_debugger is availlable on postgresql.org's repo. And supported by our postgresql support provider. You can of course use pgadmin, the official tool, with this plugin. You should reassess your critics before posting, I think. The evolution of postgresql is faster and faster.

I have spent 2014 to 2018 doing PostgresSQL deployments alongside Oracle, I know how good those offerings are versus Oracle. Pushing for those plugins as alternative just shows how little one knows about the feature level of Oracle capabilities.

Indeed and the last two years in postgresql history have been very rich feature wise.

I have managed teams of database administrators for roughly 10 years. And I know that using those arcane features or depending too much on those capabilities has cost millions to my company.

Avoid implementing everything in a database.

Re: Oracle vs. PostgreSQL: First Glance

#190

Post by thda »

pjmlp wrote: post #186
derefr wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Postgres isn't an RDBMS "vendor." Third-party service providers are who you have relationships with. It's like Linux vs. Windows. You don't have a relationship with "Linux"; you have a relationship with RedHat or Canonical, who take responsibility for integration, support, and maintenance of their upstreams (kernel, core libraries, userland packages, etc.)

Apparently not, otherwise there wouldn't exist something like "The PostgreSQL Global Development Group". Anyone trying others to adopt their products is a vendor, regardless if they are commercial or open source. Also Linux is just a kernel, naturally it needs a vendor like RedHat or Canonical to provide an actual product. Postgres is a RDMS already out of the box.

As answered, pgadmin is first class and supports debugging.
Post reply on HN