From what I've seen 12 months pay in Germany is probably equivalent to 3.5 months pay in the US.
Pardon my frankness but that's BS. What are you referring to here? How much money buys you? Aka: costs of living? How much you make, converting EUR to USD? What industry? IT? I worked in a leadership position at a multi-national in Berlin for almost five years. I know the salaries the engineers had in CA & Chicago vs Germany. US was maybe 20% more max. In terms of what it buys you ... not so much. See below. Cost of…
Sorry to break the news for you, but German salaries are 50% of US salaries (US salaries may vary by location). My first offer on the cost as my first job was 160k USD. In Germany they were backing out in Munich if I asked for 60k EUR.
"Cost of living in Munich (one of Germany's most expensive cities) vs. SF.[1] And then Berlin (one of Germany's cheapest cities) vs. SF.[2]"
I think these numbers are outdated. Especially Berlins rental and real estate costs are catching up quickly.
Yes, it's a trade-off. Less regulation and more freedom and flexibility at the cost of more social risk and personal responsibility. That's the American way. I was simply stating that truth, not defending it nor saying other realities can't exist. But there is always a trade-off. What part of that is so controversial? Perhaps things have changed and the balance needs to be shifted now. That's a great discussion to ha…
"Just buy your own factory" as a response to the power imbalance between the workers and the owners of the means of production is the controversial statement.
The actual quote is "nobody is stopping you" - because that imbalance means it's easier for you to also own the means of production. It's unequivocally true, and enjoyed by 10s of millions of small business owners and entrepreneurs which form the heart of the American middle class. It answers the why posed by the GP.
But yes, different places are different and life isn't fair. No need to cutoff any discussion of various economic systems and environments for the same basic retorts.
Iirc a German friend got more than 12 months severance for a lay-off in SAP. It’s interesting to Compare differences in norms around the world.
The US workers, at least in IT make much more money than their European counterparts, while paying less taxes. A wise person could in theory save 20% or more every month to create own safety net, while still enjoying a high standard of living. Alas this is not the American way of life, where it is not uncommon to spend even over 100K per year on a lavish lifestyle and living in debt.
But if you save up for your own safety net, you might get very high bills if you get one of the sicknesses that are not covered by the insurance. Either you depend on society or the market. Both have their problems.
Devastated housing costs which were on a decade long uptrend before AirBNB existed you mean? Or because its capitalized rentals to a higher extent than the normal purchase/rental market could do?
AirBnB is a great business. I actually met the founders when they were just starting, handling out Obama 'O's as marketing gifts. Maybe should have asked them to join their company.
This being said. Their business and bypassing of local laws has made many housing markets in touristic city insanely expensive. I know, some win, some lose but still, it is a major concern.
Iirc a German friend got more than 12 months severance for a lay-off in SAP. It’s interesting to Compare differences in norms around the world.
The US workers, at least in IT make much more money than their European counterparts, while paying less taxes. A wise person could in theory save 20% or more every month to create own safety net, while still enjoying a high standard of living. Alas this is not the American way of life, where it is not uncommon to spend even over 100K per year on a lavish lifestyle and living in debt.
How could Europeans move to the US?
Apply to a position and hope to be moved over with a L1 visa?
Yeah and I could become a rock star if I started playing the guitar. Getting loans is hard, especially if you're one of the working poor. Starting a company that doesn't die after a few years is harder. When you're one of the 40% of Americans who can't cover an unexpected $400 expense, if you company fails you're fucked. The social safety net in the US is a joke.
Yes, it's a trade-off. Less regulation and more freedom and flexibility at the cost of more social risk and personal responsibility. That's the American way. I was simply stating that truth, not defending it nor saying other realities can't exist. But there is always a trade-off. What part of that is so controversial? Perhaps things have changed and the balance needs to be shifted now. That's a great discussion to ha…
You meant more freedom for those who are in a powerful enough position to take advantage of it.
That the other side of the coin is misery for those, who have not the means to exercise these freedoms, that is the problem your comments ignore.
There is always theoretical freedom and practical (real) freedom. It is not evident, that the USA offers more freedom to the average person.
Moreover, as a condition of employment, many (most?) US workers must sign an “employment agreement” which is essentially a legal document written by the company, for the company. It’s like an employment contract except with terms that only benefit the company.
Legally speaking, you always have a contract when working for someone. Even if it's implicit and oral only. You even have a contract when you are buying a piece of candy at the newsstand. (At least in the common law world. In eg German law technically you have one contract for the piece of candy, and one contract for each individual coin you are handing over. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction_principle_(l…
That is NOT the case in the US. That’s the whole point of this sub-thread.
> You own a factory. Your employees don't. There's a power imbalance in the employment relationship. You make it sound like employers are all fat rich people smoking cigars while everyone else is in a sweatshop. The reality is that 99% of businesses are very small in size (as in, one owner and very few employees) and it's often much more a partnership than the power imbalance you are talking about. Yet the same laws…
There's often (though not always) some size cutoffs in various benefit requirements for small businesses to relax the rules a bit. Such as 50 employees for the ACA I believe. But I agree, people act like the economy is nothing but fortune 500 megacorps and push for laws that make it harder for everyone to survive except for such businesses and their employees. And people always miss the hidden cost, even when talking…
I've heard the difference between European safety nets/regulations and US systems described as "freedom to" vs "freedom from". If we accept your premise, that the hidden cost of regulating severance is a decline in salary, this fits the above difference. In the US, you have the "freedom to" be as irresponsible as you want, living at or beyond your means, but if you're laid off, you bear the responsibility of dealing with the consequences. In Europe, you have the "freedom from" having to worry about that situation, since the safety net will provide some time for you to get back on your feet, and the price was a lower salary (in effect, forced savings).
I get paid monthly and have a yearly salary so three and a half months or slightly over a quarter of a year are durations I can more easily convert to an idea of money (or time), which I think is the point. If I hear 14 weeks or 98 days I can’t easily (ie naturally) convert it into terms I can think about.
if numbers sway one like this, pre-ipo company is not the place one want to be