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Animals killed since opening this page

justone.earth

91–100 of 120 posts

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#91
post #64

I am not sure if veganism and vegetarianism as preached by some religions can be practiced everywhere on the earth. Places which are very cold during the winters cannot grow trees and vegetables, and the people there need to depend on meat from the animals for their survival. What are your thoughts on that.

Veganism is defined as

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

So the keyword here is 'practicable'.

People living in places where there are no alternatives and where people need to eat meat to survive then that would be OK.

People living in the western world don't need meat & dairy to survive.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#92
post #15

Just wish it was illegal to show smiling chickens on chicken packs. It desensitize people from treating meat as previously living beings. Ideally each animal product comes with the imagery like one you get now on cigarette packs (but of an animal in a cage/slaughterhouse) + appropriate cost increases for welfare. Recent law introduction of putting 1, 2, 3 stars on animal product packages to signify how well animal wa…

> Just wish it was illegal to show smiling chickens on chicken packs. It desensitize people from treating meat as previously living beings. It should also be illegal for vegans to lie about how a vegan diet is cruelty free. Farming kills far more animals than raising livestock. Far more insects, worms, rodents, etc are killed to protect vegetation and harvest vegetation than are killed in slaughterhouses. Every bowl…

I am confused. The animals killed in slaughterhouses... don't they also eat vegetation before they are killed? That vegetation doesn't need to be protected from insects?

The way you described it, it sounds like a cow appears out of thin air -- poof! -- then it is killed, and 1000 people can eat with only 1 animal killed. It's the people who step on insects while they water the salad who are the true monsters, because they kill 1000 animals for 1 lunch. But how many insects does the cow step on before it grows up and gets killed?

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#93
post #90

Now do: Animals which would have been killed if all forests were cut down to supply the agricultural needs of 7 billion vegetarians. The sort of one dimensional thought process presented here is somewhat dangerous.

Animals are lossy at converting plant calories into meat calories (varies for different kinds of livestock obviously). I don’t think it’s an obvious conclusion that more agricultural land would be required.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just wish it was illegal to show smiling chickens on chicken packs. It desensitize people from treating meat as previously living beings. It should also be illegal for vegans to lie about how a vegan diet is cruelty free. Farming kills far more animals than raising livestock. Far more insects, worms, rodents, etc are killed to protect vegetation and harvest vegetation than are killed in slaughterhouses. Every bowl…

I am confused. The animals killed in slaughterhouses... don't they also eat vegetation before they are killed? That vegetation doesn't need to be protected from insects? The way you described it, it sounds like a cow appears out of thin air -- poof! -- then it is killed, and 1000 people can eat with only 1 animal killed. It's the people who step on insects while they water the salad who are the true monsters, because…

> I am confused.

Probably as a result of a poor vegan diet. Your brain is probably starved of the nutrients it needs.

> The animals killed in slaughterhouses... don't they also eat vegetation before they are killed?

Yes, just like in the wild? And the vegetation they eat are vegetation that can be grown in poorer quality land.

> That vegetation doesn't need to be protected from insects?

Yes. And?

> The way you described it, it sounds like a cow appears out of thin air -- poof!

No. They don't. That's my point. Vegans make it seem like their "healthy" meals appear out of nowhere. Not only is a vegan diet the worst diet for humans ( no human can survive on it in the wild ), it's the worst for the environment

> It's the people who step on insects while they water the salad who are the true monsters

Really? Not the trillions of insects/rodents/etc killed by pesticides? Not the trillions of animals killed to clear the land for farming? Not the countless animals killed to harvest the vegetation?

> But how many insects does the cow step on before it grows up and gets killed?

You are right. Cows are evil, lets have some burgers.

Frankly, if you truly care about animals, then you should be arguing for a hunter gatherer diet. That's the most environmentally friendly and most humane diet on earth. Think about it. No farming, no raising livestock. Just gathering and hunting what is available. But I highly doubt you'd advocate for that since virtue signaling vegans don't care about the environment or animals. They care about attention

It is a fact that the hunter gather lifestyle is the best for nature. Then it's the current system. And the absolute worst for animals, environment and humans is the vegan diet.

But like a typical privileged vegan, you probably never set foot on a farm or knowing anything about agriculture. Good luck with that.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#95
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This page doesn't count animals killed by other (non-human) animals. Because it's a silly vegan propaganda page by wealthy privileged virtue signaling crowd without any grasp on reality. Countless quadrillions of animals are killed every year in nature. Countless billions of animals are killed every year to clear land and protect vegetation from insects, worms, rodents, etc. Countless billions of animals are killed…

Factory farming big in nature?

No more than human veganism in nature...

No more than industrial farming and globalism.

So how about we go back to nature and live a hunter gather lifestyle? Or are you against that because you want to live a selfish and destructive vegan lifestyle just so that you can virtue signal?

How about this, go learn a thing about agriculture and how destructive that is to the environment and animals. If you truly care about the environment and animals, I guarantee you that vegans will be your #1 enemy. Good luck.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#96
post #90

Now do: Animals which would have been killed if all forests were cut down to supply the agricultural needs of 7 billion vegetarians. The sort of one dimensional thought process presented here is somewhat dangerous.

Animals are lossy at converting plant calories into meat calories (varies for different kinds of livestock obviously). I don’t think it’s an obvious conclusion that more agricultural land would be required.

Most agriculture is only feasible in fertile lands. A majority of modern agriculture happens in river valleys once occupied by rainforests.

In comparison, animal rearing is feasible in pretty desolate places as long as you can transport feed and water.

Just claiming it's a lossy energy conversion is pretty irrelevant. Not all the 'calories' here are created equal.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#97
post #52

Is there any upside to industrialized livestock farming? E.g. the enormous number of animals that get to live?

Do you think quality of life matters? Or is mere existence enough? If so, do you think factory farmed animals have a good of quality life?

Well, at least most animals don't try killing themselves, regardless of how bad their quality of life is, so they seem to prefer existence to quality of life.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true. I think many people who eat meat do it because they enjoy it and in most cultures, eating meat is the default thing to do; most don't actually approve of factory farming conditions. If the pictures actually depicted animals in the conditions they were raised (humanely raised meat could depict something more humane than something factory-farmed on the packaging), many people would try to ea…

Consider that taxing factory meat and putting the proceeds into a subsidy of humane meats would accomplish the policy goal without the tedious social shaming. The problem that faces is that it looks and feels more like an animal-lib play than an animal-welfare one. As you point out, the animal liberationist faction will not stop pushing until there's no meat at the market, and raising and slaughtering your own is as…

That’s a very convenient but not very ethical conclusion. You are basically saying “I believe some people will try to go further than I like,I conclude it’s best to do nothing”. I can’t agree with that but it’s a common political trick to mark things you don’t like as too extreme and therefore nothing should be done.

Re: Animals killed since opening this page

#99
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals are lossy at converting plant calories into meat calories (varies for different kinds of livestock obviously). I don’t think it’s an obvious conclusion that more agricultural land would be required.

Most agriculture is only feasible in fertile lands. A majority of modern agriculture happens in river valleys once occupied by rainforests. In comparison, animal rearing is feasible in pretty desolate places as long as you can transport feed and water. Just claiming it's a lossy energy conversion is pretty irrelevant. Not all the 'calories' here are created equal.

Where do you think the feed comes from?
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