It’s not binary. There are degrees. Filling your car with petrol and choosing to stay with a dubious firm are at opposite ends. The difference, to me, is your ability to avoid the complicity. It’s hard, for most, not to drive in their petrol-based car. But for many techies, it’s not hard to choose a different tech firm.
I agree there is a spectrum. I'm not sure what evidence there is, or even what metrics you would use to decide that these two are at opposite ends.
Ability to reasonably avoid the complicity.
Obviously what’s reasonable is up for debate.
I’d say leaving one firm for another firm, in a decent job market is definitely doable.
Not using your car, on the other hand, for lots of people, isn’t reasonable.
Simply not true, at all. When supporting a family that comes first. Always.
You're saying no matter how much money you have, 10x the average national income, 100x, 1000x, there's no way you would risk _any_ loss of income by leaving your software developer job, regardless of what you were asked to do. Is that right? To be clear, we're not talking about risking food & shelter here. We're talking about risking one fewer skiing holiday a year, or buying the house with the slightly smaller swimm…
The average software engineer does not have a skiing holiday or a swimming pool. Even home ownership is down. The vast majority of people, even people making 100k+, do not have that luxury.
Grouping together millionaires with software developers working at Google doesn't make sense to me.
This whole debate is about drawing a line in the sand about morality that is convenient for the author. The same exact arguments could be made for any number of things anybody does every single day.
Simply not true, at all. When supporting a family that comes first. Always.
You're right. Your family comes first. Endowing your children with good moral sensibilities they can carry forward into the next generation is incredibly important. Hint, hint.
I guess you are the arbiter of moral righteousness in the world, then. Are you writing this on a computer? Where did the materials come from that built it? Conflict free? How about the wages for the person who built it?
We technologists like to pretend we're powerful, that we could bring these giant megacorps to their knees because those fancy suits need us, right? No. They need an engineer, not any one specific engineer. Companies like Amazon reject many candidates that could probably do the job they applied for, but were rejected because they can afford to be picky. If anything changes at Amazon it not be because of the loss of th…
Engineers should begin to understand that they are not some enlightened beings that have somehow grown beyond the need for workplace organization. They are still cogs in the machine that can be replaced at any time; pricey cogs for sure, and replacing them may take some time, but they are still cogs.
That's why you have to learn to live for your own "selfish" good as opposed to giving yourself to your company. You use them like they use you. That's why I have worked for an assortment of companies that HN would turn their noses up to. I would never work with an "evil"company per se, but companies that don't do "life changing" or "socially aware" software is perfectly okay with me. Software is just a tool in my tool box to live the life that I want to live. Let go of the rat race and find out who you are. A yacht, a sports-car, a superb algorithm, a vapid partner on your arm, will never make you happy or feel like you're living your best life. Don't let work become your life. Otherwise you'll just be a burnt out programmer, salesperson, businessperson, or whatever, it's not a field that's doing it to you, it's yourself.
We technologists like to pretend we're powerful, that we could bring these giant megacorps to their knees because those fancy suits need us, right? No. They need an engineer, not any one specific engineer. Companies like Amazon reject many candidates that could probably do the job they applied for, but were rejected because they can afford to be picky. If anything changes at Amazon it not be because of the loss of th…
When you help a dubious firm progress, you further that dubious behaviour. Techies, and everyone else, included. Edit, re the enlightening discussion below: You are complicit in your employer’s behaviour, more-so if you are reasonably able to find another job, but decide against it.
The problem is you are a cog, and most likely no better than your replacement cog, so other than your own moral high ground you aren't accomplishing anything. Personally I won't work somewhere that I find goes against my values. However I don't picture myself as the next MLK either.
We technologists like to pretend we're powerful, that we could bring these giant megacorps to their knees because those fancy suits need us, right? No. They need an engineer, not any one specific engineer. Companies like Amazon reject many candidates that could probably do the job they applied for, but were rejected because they can afford to be picky. If anything changes at Amazon it not be because of the loss of th…
What is an ocean, but a sea of drops? It starts with employees speaking up individually. Raise your voice and be heard. Upper management won't learn moral lessons on their own; they need to hear employees nagging them to be better people.
I always hear people saying this but the person saying is 99% unlikely to have done so themselves.
Debt and healthcare are used to ensure that you don't have the freedom to walk away from immorality. If you're in debt for your (or your kids' and/or partner's) house or education, or depend upon your employer for healthcare, you are not free to walk away. You might be able to switch jobs for something less objectionable, but so long as "not doing the immoral thing" means "my kid might not get treated for their cance…
Author here. I did not say "just walk away". This is what I said: >A good software engineer with only a couple of years of experience under their belt can expect to have an offer within 1 or 2 months of starting their search.
A fair point, leaving with a job offer is much different. For what it's worth I still found it easiest to speak out when young, debt free, and single.