New 13-inch MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#961

Post by neop1x » Tue, May 05, 2020, 9:46 AM UTC

hidiegomariani wrote: post #149

I've a macbook pro 13' 2017 - It's the worst laptop I've used in the past 10 years. It continuously gets smoking hot lot of fan noise and very often kernel panics. I have lost faith in apple macbook especially when price to hardware ratio is higher than anyone else in the industry I expect the machine to just work seamlessly. I'm very soon disposing the laptop and buy a dell or a thinkpad. I'm not looking at apple ag…

I still find it interesting that IT professionals are such "i-Sheeps". I mean Apple software is awesome, macOS, useful functions of Preview like adding a signature or notes to pdf, many other apps are polished and feel nice - but does it really give you an actual production improvements? I doubt it.

And HW is sooo bad in contrast. It looks like a toy. Overheating, it's either too hot (so some had to drill holes at the bottom), or cold to touch if powered off, pain to use due to bad ergonomics, hard corners, stupid ideas like touchbar, too tiny key travel, no upgradabity (RAM soldered), battery glued. Many decisions made just for the "keynote marketing show", to make it thinner again, one or two ports because wireless revution (like XDR monitors over WiFi?!). Overpriced slow and throttling CPU, every model looks almost the same, aluminium casing easy to bend, scratch, make dents.

Are you really purchasing those overpriced SSDs direct from Apple? Do you know you can easily buy and replace SSD? I even replaced the screen on my HP Elitebook G6 easily to get better sRGB coverage.

And then I see people saying "you can get used to it". Get used to dongles and lack of ports. Really, why would I need to get used to some bad design decisions on such an expensive machine, doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe they like CMD+C shortcut in the terminal. Ok... But something like that is possible on Linux too with Autokey and two lines of Python code to detect a terminal window (I use it myself). And I guess similar hotkey app can be set up on Windows.

I am sorry but I can't help myself. I see Macbooks more like a fashion item for not very technical people than the professional hardware.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#962

Post by pilsetnieks » Tue, May 05, 2020, 10:34 AM UTC

labcomputer wrote: post #907

pilsetnieks wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C would take off like wildfire if there actually existed any proper USB-C hubs - not what's currently called a "USB-C hub" which is more like a breakout box which at best replicates the single USB-C port it takes up and adds a bunch of legacy ports; I'm talking about a proper hub that plugs into a single port and turns it into multiple ports, like those dirt cheap old USB-A hubs. You literally cannot move to an a…

As I've written before on HN: A hub with multiple USB-C downstream ports cannot exist with any sort of reasonable UX. The C port supports multiple "alternate modes," which remap USB-data pins to other functions (like DisplayPort, HDMI, Thunderbolt, analog audio, etc.) The various alternate modes are not simply transporting display/audio/Thunderbolt data over a USB channel. It's the difference between packet switching…

From the point of the user: I have a mouse, a keyboard, a display, an external drive, and occassionally I need to plug in a flash drive, printer or some other device. There is one or two of those new small rounded USB ports on my computer which is not enough. How can I possibly plug in everything I need?

It's not the users' fault that the whole USB-C thing amounts to a very fast, very efficient and elegant garbage fire. It's the greatest port ever, it can do everything, except not at the same time, so I have to choose whether I want to plug in my keyboard or my display.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#963

Post by sbalea » Tue, May 05, 2020, 11:04 AM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #336

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

Genuinely curious, have you had your MacBook Pro knocked over from the power cord since switching away from MagSafe? Lots of people complain about missing MagSafe but I’ve never seen or heard of this actually happening. I’m sure it has happened but it just doesn’t seem like a big problem. For me, just in the past month I’ve had the usb charger yanked out by the cord multiple times by people and pets tripping over it…

I was concerned about that myself, but so far so good. I suspect the ability to charge on either side makes a difference. I usually plug in on whatever side is closer to a wall and out of the way. Combined with all the other usb-c/tb benefits, i think the tradeoff is worth it.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#964

Post by whywhywhywhy » Tue, May 05, 2020, 11:09 AM UTC

caribousoup wrote: post #617

npalmer76 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still on a early 2015 13" Mac Book Pro because I have hated everything they have done since then. I even bought one with a touch bar but found it so annoying and I hated the keyboard so I returned it and stuck with my old laptop. At least they fixed the keyboard now, but the touch bar I still don't want.

It's exemplary of how out-of-touch Apple has become. Most people either vocally dislike the Touch Bar, or don't care about it, because it offers such little value to overcome the real world inconvenience. Same with external displays. People have wanted standalone retina displays for what, 5 years? Then 4 years later, we get a $5,000 display made only for a single market. All anyone wanted was the iMac sans computer.…

> $5,000 display

Ahh yeah the display that when you criticize the price people cried it was a great deal because it was up to spec with $30,000 screens. Then when tested it can't actually function where you would use one of those because it's not quite up to spec you get told "What do you expect? It's $5000 not $30,000"

So what do we have? Just an overpriced screen that can't be used for the professional work it was claimed to be for for YouTuber tech reviewers to show off with.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#965

Post by whywhywhywhy » Tue, May 05, 2020, 11:12 AM UTC

mns wrote: post #517

hidiegomariani wrote: post #149

I've a macbook pro 13' 2017 - It's the worst laptop I've used in the past 10 years. It continuously gets smoking hot lot of fan noise and very often kernel panics. I have lost faith in apple macbook especially when price to hardware ratio is higher than anyone else in the industry I expect the machine to just work seamlessly. I'm very soon disposing the laptop and buy a dell or a thinkpad. I'm not looking at apple ag…

I also have a 13" from 2018. No issues with it, keyboard works fine and used daily, having a shitty no name 40 Euro 9 USB port dongle, no errors, maybe 3 reboots in all this time. Love it for the portability and somehow like the keyboard. I also have a 16" at home, more powerful, love the screen on it, might seem weird, but I'm not sure which keyboard I like more at this point, I kind of got used with the butterfly.…

Yeah the butterfly keyboard works absolutely fine, until it doesn't. Then one day your keys have dead zones, repeat or are unresponsive and all it takes is one dust particle.

This isn't a case where some are faulty some are fine it's a fundamental flaw in the design of the mechanism and it will happen to your laptop some day we know this because it was grandfathered into the replacement scheme.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#966

Post by wusel » Tue, May 05, 2020, 11:23 AM UTC

70jS8h5L wrote: post #873

caribousoup wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same impression with the 2018 15" MBP. Topcase was replaced twice, and a full exchange for the third repair, all within the first year. The screen is now pressure damaged everywhere... by gently wiping with a damp microfiber cloth? I'm certain it's a manufacturing defect, but I can't seem to find similar complaints anywhere. I've been buying Macs for 20+ years, let's be honest... I'm not rage quitting and moving plat…

Same issue for me with the screen. It's been meticulously cared for and only ever wiped with a clean damp microfibre and there's small micro scratches, as well as marks from what I assume is it resting on the keys whilst closed. I could tolerate such issues with the old models safe in the knowledge that a replacement glass was fairly cheap - not the case anymore. And then there's the degradation of reliability softwa…

In regard to the display: Yes, those marks come from the keys pressing against the display. Be careful how much you fill in your backpack with the MBP. My display looks very bad around the space bar (that is the 2018 "improved display"). Noticed that way too late. An Apple Genius recommended me to always have a microfiber cloth between display and keyboard when traveling. Not on a $3000 device thanks.

Heating/fan issues, double typing keys, too many "-gates" to count. I never had so much buyers regret.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#967

Post by whywhywhywhy » Tue, May 05, 2020, 11:24 AM UTC

vehemenz wrote: post #426

FillardMillmore wrote: post #216

What's the real value in paying more for this compared to getting a new MacBook Air?

The big thing is thermal design. In the new MBA, a moderate load spins up the fans really loud, whereas in the MBPs, it takes a pegged CPU/GPU to even turn the fans on. Honorable mention: better screen in terms of colors and brightness. Probably a faster SSD. More TB3 ports.

> whereas in the MBPs, it takes a pegged CPU/GPU to even turn the fans on.

This hasn't been true since the 2015 models, the USB-C era will turn fans on at the drop of a hat.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#968

Post by everdrive » Tue, May 05, 2020, 11:42 AM UTC

mekster wrote: post #786

everdrive wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS has really stagnated over the years. I first started using it back in 2004, where its main competitor was pre-SP2 Windows XP. At that time you could really call MacOS advanced. At this point, it's sort of a wash. Windows does things better, Mac does other things better, and it mostly comes down to preference. The old argument about security is mostly a wash now as well. (whereas with pre-SP2 Windows XP vs. OSX…

Back then, MacOS X didn't have enough third party apps to replace Windows workflow but the OS kept advancing on every release. Now we have better third party apps on macOS than Windows but OS stopped advancing but who cares about OS anymore? It's all about apps nowadays.

A fair opinion for some, but if there is still more application support on Windows, I don't see how this is a benefit to MacOS.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#969

Post by jeddf » Tue, May 05, 2020, 12:05 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #930

tolmasky wrote: post #759

I decided to switch back to the (new) MacBook Air instead. I feel that had the butterfly fiasco never happened, this generation of laptops may have just dumped the Touch Bar entirely, but instead, there were so many general keyboard complaints (escape key specifically, general Touch Bar complaints, and of course the butterfly keyboard complaints), that it is reasonable that they are trying to see if this new "reduced…

I'm considering switching to the Air as well. How have the first impressions been? I'm somewhat worried about using an Air for development performance-wise. For me the big factors are that I actually use functions keys (in Emacs, mostly) and just cost. My previous Macbook Pro (2011), which is in its death throes, at the time a top-of-the-line 13", was $1200. With aftermarket 8 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD, I managed to k…

I naively picked up a late 2018 air without considering the thermal aspects of the performance. It sounds obvious but I totally missed it and bought on basis of the benchmark numbers, make sure to look at the thermal performance under sustained loads. Notebookcheck do a good job at deep diving on this in their review https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-2018-i5-256-....

It's basically passively cooled! There's no heatpipe connecting the fan to the CPU so it kicks up to max all the time trying to cool it but can't make much of a dent on the temp. Really mind boggling.

I had to switch back to my old pro machine and felt like a bit of a berk for not reading up on that aspect.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#970

Post by Sangeppato » Tue, May 05, 2020, 12:22 PM UTC

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

I think that the MBP actually has the better CPU and the better thermals (the latest XPS is not that great in this regard).

Other than that, I completely agree